DaemonForums  

Go Back   DaemonForums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic

Off-Topic Everything else.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd August 2008
ninjatux's Avatar
ninjatux ninjatux is offline
Real Name: Baqir Majlisi
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Antarctica
Posts: 293
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Default "Platform of the Future": Shuttleworth's Comments

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...-keynote.ars/2

Quote:
"We have to make software that is profoundly usable," he said. "I think the great task ahead of us over the next two years is to lift the experience of the Linux desktop from something that is stable and robust and not so pretty, to something which is art. Not emulate, but blow right past Apple in the user experience we deliver to our end users. [...] We will start investing in making the desktop beautiful and functional."
What do you make of this and the rest of the article?

Why does a desktop have to be "beautiful"? What constitutes "beautiful"? How does anyone define "functionality"? Sometimes, I think the statement that "Linux is for people who hate Windows..." is quite true, especially when you see Linux leaders embarrassing themselves.
__________________
"UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity."
MacBook Pro (Darwin 9), iMac (Darwin 9), iPod Touch (Darwin 9), Dell Optiplex GX620 (FreeBSD 7.1-STABLE)
Reply With Quote
  #2   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd August 2008
ocicat ocicat is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,876
Thanked 190 Times in 160 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatux View Post
Why does a desktop have to be "beautiful"?
You may be reading the word "beautiful" too literally.
Quote:
What constitutes "beautiful"? How does anyone define "functionality"?
These are two good questions, & unfortunately, different camps will focus on different aspects. Personally, I don't believe that Apple is the epitome of usability. They aren't always consistent, & the morphing, bouncing, & spinning UI pyrotechnics used do little more than chew up CPU cycles, & play into Apple's branding. Now if these cutesy little gimmicks did something like take out the trash, then I may reconsider...

Nevertheless, certain segments of society will be entertained by these contrivances, & more importantly, they may give newbies the sense of interaction & accomplishment with their computer while displacing apprehension with enjoyment. This is important to them, & there isn't any reason that I should take it away from them.

...but it isn't so important to me. My needs are different & I hope that there will always be some solution which is more in alignment with the way I work.

Sometimes small is beautiful as is stability, flexibility, & simplicity -- all things that many people off the street will not readily identify. Because of all these factors, I don't believe that one universal operating system will be the answer to all problems. Diversity is just as good for the marketplace as it is to genetics.
Quote:
Sometimes, I think the statement that "Linux is for people who hate Windows..." is quite true, especially when you see Linux leaders embarrassing themselves.
Maybe it is true all of the time...
Reply With Quote
  #3   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd August 2008
18Googol2's Avatar
18Googol2 18Googol2 is offline
Real Name: whoami
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: pwd
Posts: 283
Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatux View Post
Why does a desktop have to be "beautiful"?
Nothing wrong with beauty. Ours needs are simply different from others. We need functionality, security... but they may need the PC for designing work, entertainment...
Reply With Quote
  #4   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd August 2008
BSDfan666 BSDfan666 is offline
Real Name: N/A, this is the interweb.
Helpful companion
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,223
Thanked 193 Times in 184 Posts
Default

The future is OpenBSD, personally I dream of a future where people learn to appreciate the genius and sophistication of a command line interface.

Sadly, the 2006 movie Idiocracy is where we're actually heading..
Reply With Quote
  #5   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd August 2008
18Googol2's Avatar
18Googol2 18Googol2 is offline
Real Name: whoami
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: pwd
Posts: 283
Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSDfan666 View Post
personally I dream of a future where people learn to appreciate the genius and sophistication of a command line interface.
Well, I believe its present. So far, I havent known anyone overlooking the genius and sophistication of CLI
Reply With Quote
  #6   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd August 2008
scottro's Avatar
scottro scottro is offline
Real Name: Scott Robbins
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 302
Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Sometimes, I do think that Ubuntu is for people who hate Windows. (And also, for some people who, as they age, get tired of spending hours getting the basics working so that they can go ahead and do what they have to do.)

However, that whole Linux is for people who hate Windows strikes me as aiding MS, Apple, and the other doodie head companies.. The whole open source community is too small to fight among themselvs, though they certainly manage.

Ubuntu's stated number one bug is that Windows is on more computers than Ubuntu. It's made to be an easy transition, and is quite successful in that respect, at least on most desktops.

To those to whom a computer is merely a means to an end, it's a good alternative in some cases.

That is the majority. To most of us, the computer is an end in itself, but most people just want something to work. To us, the command line is far more powerful, to most people, it would be one more thing to learn before being able to make their report that is due tomorrow.

I think Mr. Shuttleworth is aiming at the desktop market. OpenBSD isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #7   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd August 2008
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
VPN Cryptographer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 358
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Years ago someone told me to always remember that the computer is just a big calculator. He was right and I fought it when someone asked me if they should get a computer. One of my big regrets in raising my kids was giving them a cheap one to play games on. My thought was it would get them interested in programming or electronics. It did but, when they found out how long it took to create anything, they lost interest, sadly.
Reply With Quote
  #8   (View Single Post)  
Old 4th August 2008
roddierod's Avatar
roddierod roddierod is offline
Real Name: Rod Person
VPN Cryptographer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 372
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I'll have to agree with drhowarddrfine. I started my daughter using a computer at 4 or 5 with KDE. And she caught on quickly. Then I got her her own PC and thought she would soon want to start programming or making web pages. When she did become interested in making a web page and saw on the work she lost interest.

Years later she began playing the Morrowind RPG on the PC. And she ask how do they make these types of games. I attempted to show her the construction set that allows you to create add on modules and such - again to complicated and lost interest.

It's said to say but, I feel with all the point and click GUI stuff is making the younger (and why do I feel old now...ok so i did use punch cards in 9th grade) generations are too lazy to learn anything beyond 3 or 4 clicks. Unless it's totally useless like myspace or facebook. Sometimes I think the unabomber's manifesto was correct.
__________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -Philip K. Dick
Reply With Quote
  #9   (View Single Post)  
Old 4th August 2008
ephemera's Avatar
ephemera ephemera is offline
Knuth's homeboy
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 537
Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Default

there are simply too many distractions on the computer - gaming and the Internet.
an old pentium2/3 without a graphics card and linux might be a better gift.
Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008
scottro's Avatar
scottro scottro is offline
Real Name: Scott Robbins
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 302
Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Default

I think that we're just exhibiting the Aristotle syndrome. The younger generation is always irresponsible and not willing to work, and Aristotle was one of the first to complain about it, at least that I've read.
Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008
ocicat ocicat is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,876
Thanked 190 Times in 160 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
I think that we're just exhibiting the Aristotle syndrome.
scottro, were you there when he said it?
Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008
ai-danno's Avatar
ai-danno ai-danno is offline
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Posts: 284
Thanked 35 Times in 31 Posts
Default

a) not everyone's interested in what we do
b) throwing someone in the "deep end" is a sure way to turn them off
c) youth, by definition, is wasted. If it wasn't, we probably wouldn't be as productive as we are now

Some people take a liking to this naturally no matter what their entrance vector- this is rare. More stumble into it with some surface-level interaction, and think, "This is neat, I'd like to learn more." Most don't want to get into it all... and personally, that's job security for you and me , so don't knock it.

Personally I think sticking your "average" kid with a low-grade 10 year old computer is a sure way to turn them off to both programming/system-administration and computers in general. There's too many other "cool" distractions for them to blow their time on.

My whole introduction to this 'world' was Disney World. I was fortunate enough as a kid to live a few miles away, and when it was still relatively inexpensive to go. Seeing all the robotic stuff and fantasy, I thought, "How'd they do it?" Once a kid becomes interested in how it works... watch out!
__________________
Network Firefighter
Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008
ephemera's Avatar
ephemera ephemera is offline
Knuth's homeboy
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 537
Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Default

> throwing someone in the "deep end" is a sure way to turn them off

i think you are right about that.

> that's job security for you and me

good point

> Some people take a liking to this naturally no matter what their entrance vector- this is rare.

they are the computer gurus in the making.

Last edited by ephemera; 4th August 2008 at 05:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008
JMJ_coder JMJ_coder is offline
VPN Cryptographer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 464
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Hello,

With today's Desktop Environments and Window Managers, the desktop can be made to look identical to Windows, Mac OS X, or anything else. There are so many themes, wallpapers, etc. out there that with a few clicks the computer can be made to look however the user wants it to. So, how does the "not as beautiful as ... " even compute today?
__________________
And the WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us. (John 1:14)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Opera Port - conflicting pkgs in "make install" IronForge OpenBSD Packages and Ports 5 29th October 2009 05:10 AM
Fixed "xinit" after _7 _8, "how" here in case anyones' "X" breaks... using "nvidia" jb_daefo Guides 0 5th October 2009 09:31 PM
"Thanks" and "Edit Tags". diw Feedback and Suggestions 2 29th March 2009 12:06 AM
Scripted sysinstall fails with "Command 'system' failed" PeterSteele FreeBSD Installation and Upgrading 0 13th November 2008 11:31 PM
Newbie-friendly "printing in OpenBSD" guide wanted Shagbag OpenBSD Packages and Ports 5 7th July 2008 09:26 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content copyright © 2007-2010, the authors
Daemon image copyright ©1988, Marshall Kirk McKusick