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Old 24th September 2008
php111 php111 is offline
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Default Would BSD be right to learn networking?

Hello everyone,

I have no knowledge on any BSD and no knowledge on any Linux. I would like to learn networking. Before we start. If this is in the wrong section, will someone please move it to it's proper place?

Would networking be more suitable to learn on BSD, or any Unix, or Linux, or none from those? I have a Vista system. I don't use Vista. I downgraded to XP Pro. When I downgraded. I had to get the XP drivers because very few drivers regonzied. Would any OS of BSD, Unix, Linux, and such give me trouble to recognize? I would like a dual boot. I have C for XP, and H for my downloads. I have H the biggest drive because I download more. I don't have a floppy. Don't have a CD-ROM. I have a DVD burner. Yes, I can burn CD's. I don't have any DVD's left. I have plenty of CD's.

Any questions, please feel free to ask me. I do have a printer but hardly no ink to actually print out some tutorials to set me up. I am sorry. I am on a budget and a fixed budget.
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Old 24th September 2008
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All BSD systems are cleaner and simpler then any Linux, BSD systems have long tradition (Linux did not even existed) in networking so BSD is best choice here mate. BSD also have great and complete documentation while playing with Linux you have to search for some aoutdated HOWTO that does not happen to work because Linux kernel already changes 100 times since.

Get FreeBSD 7.0 ISO / NetBSD 4.0 ISO / OpenBSD 4.3 ISO and start learning while reading these systems documentation, I do not want to favorite any of BSD here so I leave the choice up to you mate.

Documentation is at projects pages:
freebsd.org
netbsd.org
openbsd.org

Feel free to ask any other questions.
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Old 24th September 2008
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I gave you a "thanks". I have some more questions that will narrow down my options.

I am a person that doesn't have patiences and very hard to learn. What would be the BSD easier to learn, easier to dual boot with XP? What BSD would be more friendlier?










Quote:
Originally Posted by vermaden View Post
All BSD systems are cleaner and simpler then any Linux, BSD systems have long tradition (Linux did not even existed) in networking so BSD is best choice here mate. BSD also have great and complete documentation while playing with Linux you have to search for some aoutdated HOWTO that does not happen to work because Linux kernel already changes 100 times since.

Get FreeBSD 7.0 ISO / NetBSD 4.0 ISO / OpenBSD 4.3 ISO and start learning while reading these systems documentation, I do not want to favorite any of BSD here so I leave the choice up to you mate.

Documentation is at projects pages:
freebsd.org
netbsd.org
openbsd.org

Feel free to ask any other questions.
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Old 24th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by php111 View Post
I am a person that doesn't have patiences and very hard to learn. What would be the BSD easier to learn, easier to dual boot with XP? What BSD would be more friendlier?
You are impatient, thats ok, because it can be redeemed by shell scripts

Generally, FreeBSD would be the best for education and research purpose. OpenBSD is another excellent alternative, particularly if you are really serious about security

And yes, dual boot with XP is trivial, just remember to install XP before FreeBSD.

I still keep XP partition btw, but I havent booted to XP for about half a year Perhaps I should boot to him and say hi tomorrow, make sure he is doing ok
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Old 24th September 2008
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You may want to consider PC BSD .. this is a desktop version of FreeBSD ... there are various threads/wiki entries at the PC BSD site on how to install in a dual-boot with Windows XP. From here you can read through the FreeBSD Handbook at freebsd.org to learn about the core system.

Depending on what you are wanting to do to "learn networking" you may need to eventually acquire a second computer to umm, setup a network and get a better feel for how network protocols work, test firewall settings, etc. If you get to this point, I'd probably recommend using the default install and learn how to configure the entire system from a base install, from the shell. It will take time to get use to working at the shell, but if you have plans on getting into the field (or have plans to extensively use BSD systems for day-to-day tasks), learning the power of the shell is worth the time.
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Old 24th September 2008
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you can also learn bsd on emulators, like
http://www.virtualbox.org/

It's free it's pretty fast....

Pros:
You can restore your virtual machine to previous saved state, if you mess up completely
You can learn bsd, while still using, win, to read manuals, on net.... etc (you can do it from console, but sometimes, it's easier from gui)

cons:
lover speed, than running or Real PC


also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...rating_systems

Last edited by graudeejs; 24th September 2008 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 24th September 2008
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Cool, I am going to take FreeBSD 7.0 from freebsd.org. It is downloading now. Since I am new, I am going to download all 3 discs and burn all 3.

I haven't look at the handbook in a while, well, maybe like 1 or 2 years or so. As I recall, the handbook didn't give instructions on how to dual boot? Am I correct?

Oh, I am not sure about a field. I want to start with something like TCP/IP. I would like to learn that on my own. I mean without going to college for it. If I need, I will get assistance from either this forum or another.

Thank you for the replies and help!
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Old 24th September 2008
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If you got good net and fast CPU (if you want to compil from sources) , i suggest you get LiveFS CD only.

You can also install prebuild packages using this cd
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Old 24th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killasmurf86 View Post
If you got good net and fast CPU (if you want to compil from sources) , i suggest you get LiveFS CD only.

You can also install prebuild packages using this cd

I have cable but it's not fast with me running torrents day in and day out. Pretty much my speeds are capped. It's pretty good, well it's okay downloading directly from the net.

I never in my life compiled before. I am not even a programmer. Back a couple of years ago, I even had problems installing FreeBSD from those CD's.
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Old 24th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerulean View Post
You may want to consider PC BSD .. this is a desktop version of FreeBSD ... ...

Although it is GNU and Linux based, I would recommended Ubuntu over PC-BSD these days, as it is a higher quality product. It also has a much larger community, although you might have to sort through other newbies along the way... lol.
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Old 24th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryP View Post
Although it is GNU and Linux based, I would recommended Ubuntu over PC-BSD these days, as it is a higher quality product.
Ubuntu is a nice product, agreed. But with his goal of learning BSD and dual-booting, PC-BSD makes a nice simple install to get to a GUI so he can have a functional, graphical BSD system while learning. Depending on his system, perhaps doing virtual machines might be an option (under Windows, Ubuntu or BSD) --- this would give him the ability to setup a virtual network and not worry (too much) about messing up his desktop install.
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Old 25th September 2008
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One thing you might want to think about php111, the contents of CD1-3 are all out dated, but you only need CD1 to install FreeBSD itself. The ports/pkgs (which include xorg, kde3, and gnome2) are all very outdated.

I generally find it best to install, run freebsd-update (or switch to 7-stable via source), then install the desired software (x11/xorg, wm/de, etc) via packages or ports. Because it allows you to have less trouble sorting out the installed software later, until after you've learned how to update installed ports/pkg properly.


You should also print out jggimi's last post, and keep it as a reminder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerulean View Post
Ubuntu is a nice product, agreed. But with his goal of learning BSD and dual-booting, PC-BSD makes a nice simple install to get to a GUI so he can have a functional, graphical BSD system while learning. Depending on his system, perhaps doing virtual machines might be an option (under Windows, Ubuntu or BSD) --- this would give him the ability to setup a virtual network and not worry (too much) about messing up his desktop install.
PC-BSDs last release (7.0) might go down in history along side their 1.5.1 release, the way FreeBSD 5 and FreeBSD 4 have --- to much change from the last release, much too fast. If it works for him out of the box with kde4, that would be a mission accomplished, if not, well he'll probably have stability problems with PC-BSD lol.

Some of the posts on their support forums over the new release, have given me a tad less then enthusiastic point of view. Using it under VirtualBox especially seems problematic.
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Old 24th September 2008
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compilling from sources (ports) is easy, it just takes longer time
no programmer knowledge is needed
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Old 24th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killasmurf86 View Post
compilling from sources (ports) is easy, it just takes longer time
no programmer knowledge is needed


1.) should I stop my 3 discs? 2.) are there any handbooks or tutorials on how to compile?
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Old 24th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by php111 View Post
1.) should I stop my 3 discs? 2.) are there any handbooks or tutorials on how to compile?
Handbook:
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...ook/index.html

installing ports/packages:
http://www2.lv.freebsd.org/doc/en_US...ook/ports.html
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Old 24th September 2008
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This is unreal: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/...rts-using.html (on that link, I was on the first page, not sure how many pages are there. I don't have a clue. I don't even know what ports to install. They are rambling off ports. I say the hell with it and install everything. I don't care if I need the ports or not. If don't need them, well I have them in case I need them later. I am lost.)









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Old 24th September 2008
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php111 -

  1. Patience is required. Knowledge and skill will come to you; but not instantly.
  2. You must be prepared to read, and read quite a bit. All of the BSDs pride themselves on their excellent documentation. You must consume it. Note: man pages are not "How To" documents, nor are they tutorials. The FAQs and Handbooks produced by the BSD projects are your prime tools for learning. Man pages are reference documents, and you will find them extremely helpful for learning how something works ... just not how to apply that thing to a specific situation the first time you come across it.
    Secondarily, and of great help, are books geared for end users of Unix (or Linux), and OS-specific books designed to aid administrators. I will be bold enough to recommend ANY book by Michael W. Lucas, who wrote Absolute BSD and Absolute OpenBSD -- he writes for someone brand new to Unix, or someone with three decades experience with it. Simultaneously. My copy of Absolute OpenBSD is very well thumbed through -- and I reread bits of it often.
  3. You must be prepared to make mistakes. You will make them. We all have, and, we all will again. Forgive yourself, and learn to learn from them.
  4. Some of your mistakes will cause data to be lost. Be prepared for it: Figure out how to take backups; and test that you can restore them in the event of an unbootable mess. See Item #5, below.
  5. Multibooting is easy to set up, but can be confusing. When setting it up, a mistake can make all OSes on the hard drive unbootable. See Item #4, above.
None of the above covers networking, which goes above-and-beyond your choice of OS.

Last edited by jggimi; 25th September 2008 at 03:10 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 25th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jggimi View Post
Secondarily, and of great help, are books geared for end users of Unix (or Linux), and OS-specific books designed to aid administrators. I will be bold enough to recommend ANY book by Michael W. Lucas, who wrote Absolute BSD and Absolute OpenBSD -- he writes for someone brand new to Unix, or someone with three decades experience with it. Simultaneously. My copy of Absolute OpenBSD is very well thumbed through -- and I reread bits of it often.
I have FreeBSD 6 Unleashed by Brian Tiemann, great book, helped me a lot, and still helps sometimes
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