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Old 15th July 2010
sharris sharris is offline
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Default Is BSD dying out or is it the forums?

Before I join this forum a few weeks ago, what lead me here was googling. daemonforums page would usually be at the top of the list and contain many replies up-to a solution 99% of the time. It always had more personality than all other BSD forum threads I read. I never visited but for months google always come up with daemonforums pages that help to answer most of my questions.

Since I join no one really bother to reply to anyone threads anymore. Seem to been going on for a few months. Is there a buzz word I don't know about. Have everyone jump ship and is secretly hanging out with LINUX hiding behind its skirt tail, kissing up .. If so, you might as well clue me up... I'm sure you all know from experience, a noobs with any BSD don't have a chance in h*ll with-out some help. So if I must jump-off the BSD bandwagon before getting started, would you mind pointing me to that LINUX distro you all are using. I actually first thought everyone was on summer vacation but today reality kick-in.

The forum may not be so active but the pages with-in get millions of hits from google so it make no since to quite now.
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Old 15th July 2010
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I think the quietness here has more to do with the fact that FreeBSD has an "official" forum.

All the BSDs have mailing list. I'm sting getting lots of emails daily from the FreeBSD list.
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Old 15th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharris View Post
Since I join no one really bother to reply to anyone threads anymore.
This is an incorrect assertion. You have started a number of threads within the last month, & I have participated in one multiple times.
Quote:
Is there a buzz word I don't know about.
Summer tends to be a time when many people take vacations. Likewise, it is always good to look at the clarity of one's posts. A good reference comes from an old thread here:

http://www.daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=596

But, I can assure you that the major *BSD variants are all quite vibrant. These forums are independent of all formal projects, so any activity or inactivity is in no way indicative of continued development. My guess is that you are asking questions at a time when many are trying to get in one last frolic before fall is upon us.
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Old 15th July 2010
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http://talks.dixongroup.net/nycbsdcon2006/

Didn't you know?
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Old 16th July 2010
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I check here regularly but feel many have moved onto FreeBSDs official forum. The BSD is dying question has been overdone .
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Old 16th July 2010
sharris sharris is offline
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Here's a perfect example:

jb_daefo made this post only a few days ago, which now have over 1000 views. My guest is through googling. The same thing that took me here in the first place.

http://www.daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=4393

I seen Google turn up threads from FreeBSD official forum (not as many as here though for my keywords), I visited and I read many times when some newly register person ask a technical questions outside of scripting, or ask about something out the norm "Great freaking Questions", then all h*ll break loose. It's like this administrator send in one of his cock-blockers to start a fight (by being a smart a*s) than 10 minutes later the administrator comes in to close the thread with an lame excuse OR screaming "RTFM" while his buddies trip over one another to pow-wow him on. (They want his job.)

We need more than one place to learn FreeBSD just like LINUX. Imagine your business join the FreeBSD official forum (with name, rank and serial#) and this unfair-administrator turns on you. Your thread is now close. Two days latter you are now Out-of-Business and it was all because your administrator did not like the way you post your question OR you sounded too cocky OR not cocky enough. Now you are on pin-and-needles, kissing-up for the rest of your life with no place to turn. I use to wonder why a place would have hundreds of viewer but near zero activity or new registration at the actual forum. Now I know ... The public is freaking scared to join.

Anyway, I am a member of two LINUX forums. The less the better. It took ba*ls for me to join this BSD-Forum and I did not join to hear the silence or to say bye, bye after I got my networks up and running. DaemonForums don't deserve to die. I bet it was "#1" not too long ago.

I'm a googler and this place proved to be the "WORLD" and it pops up with great solutions and BSD education when no other would. Somehow, I learn more about FreeBSD in the past 4 months when I was not a member

Sorry but this is the way I feel about it.

Last edited by sharris; 16th July 2010 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 16th July 2010
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Quote:
Is BSD dying out or is it the forums?
sharris 11 Minutes Ago
by sharris 5 67 FreeBSD General

Dansguardian-ClamAV-Squid ?
sharris 21 Hours Ago
by sharris 0 32 FreeBSD Security
Virtualization 2010 ?
sharris 2 Days Ago
by sharris 6 138 FreeBSD General
My first Gateway and LAN having issues
sharris 1 Week Ago
by sharris 19 480 General software and network
Why is FreeBSD dd so slow?
sharris 3 Weeks Ago
by sharris 10 458 FreeBSD General
this is taken from your personal stats.

5 threads, and only one without an answer. So what is the real problem?

Not the quantity but the quality counts
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Old 16th July 2010
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@sharris

In the bsdforums.org 'times' most of BSD community were there, then admin, the bsdforums.org owner did not want to 'continue' its forum, it was full of SPAM (while moderators were deleting SPAM by hand ...) and it died ...

Most active users and moderators from bsdforums.org created daemonforums.org, but after short period 'migration' have ended and most of 'old' users were using this forum.

... and then out of nowhere FreeBSD starts 'official FreeBSD forum', which taken a lot users from here, most people (especially the new ones) probably gone directly to the 'official' forum and never look back.

Also, majority of BSD users are FreeBSD users, as its the most popular/known BSD, so we 'lost' the 'most count' group to the official forum.
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Old 16th July 2010
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vermaden, thanks for the historical facts, I got a lot to learn. It seem they started in 2008 so in reality the official FreeBSD forum is still young so they got a lot to learn also about people. Rude type administrators still have time to get it right or they must be replaced immediately by experenced people persons, regardless of what they know or if related to the author. You either treat people right or get off the wire.

Quote:
klanger::: this is taken from your personal stats.
5 threads, and only one without an answer. So what is the real problem?
Not the quantity but the quality counts
I was afraid some would miss my entire point, and I did plan to say "The time it took for you to do that research was the time needed to replies to those many threads that really needed your help last week". I'm sure many of them are sad and some went back to LINUX.

Quote:
ocicat::: This is an incorrect assertion. You have started a number of threads within the last month, & I have participated in one multiple times.
... and if you and BSDfan666's did not participate, I would have given up FreeBSD and when back to trying to network with LINUX, for the rest of my life. So deep down, you are the only person who know where I'm coming from.
______
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Thank you all
now I understand
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Old 16th July 2010
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What on earth is your beef with the FreeBSD forums?
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Old 16th July 2010
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Are you the owner/operator?
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Old 16th July 2010
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No, I'm one of the moderators, and one of the most active members on there. The owners/operators (administrators) are also active FreeBSD developers, and usually too busy to participate on a daily basis.

I do not recognize your perception of the FreeBSD Forums, which are, in my view, not fundamentally different form e.g DaemonForums or its predecessor BSDForums. And I don't think the FreeBSD Forums are essentially more or less 'stern' or 'RTFM-y' than DaemonForums.

Most of the mods/admins here are active members on FreeBSD Forums as well, and I have a fine and friendly relationship with all of them. If that wasn't mutual, I would have heard it by now (esp. the Dutch guys, who are usually not mincing their words ).

So specifically, what is the problem?
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Old 16th July 2010
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There is nothing wrong with the FreeBSD forums. We even shared some "vBulletin tricks". Nothing but love between us. As DF Administrator/Owner I post there myself from time to time.

As for answering your threads: Sometimes people just don't know. Or your questions are complicated and it takes a lot of time to understand your problem & offer some assistance.
No one is paid, we do this in our spare time. I (And many others) are happy to help and donate our time to you, many of your threads seem like large and rather complicated questions, this of course does not help in the amount of answers you will receive.
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Old 16th July 2010
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@DutchDaemon

Dunno what impression You got after my respond, but I only showed the 'reason' that recently we have less 'traffic' here, the birth of 'official' FreeBSD forums, IMHO, the more forums we have, the better for community.

For me its generally no difference, I use both FreeBSD forums and daemonforums (and many more various forums).

I also think that its great for FreeBSD (and their users) that it have an 'official' forum, because now you are SURE that FreeBSD developers (or at least some of them) read the topics/problems, while when there only was bseforums/daemonforums, they were mostly NOT readed by devs, and almost every time the users with problems were sent to lists.freebsd.org, now the FreeBSD ecosystem is more healthy after creation of the forums.
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Old 16th July 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermaden View Post
@DutchDaemon

Dunno what impression You got after my respond, but I only showed the 'reason' that recently we have less 'traffic' here, the birth of 'official' FreeBSD forums, IMHO, the more forums we have, the better for community.
My reply was in no way aimed at you or anything you said. Usually when I respond immediately after someone's post, I don't use the @ stuff. I was only responding to the accusations that were leveled against the FreeBSD Forums staff by sharris. Which I still don't understand.
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Old 16th July 2010
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DutchDaemon:
Quote:
What on earth is your beef with the FreeBSD forums?
Quote:
So specifically, what is the problem?
.. yes, you are the one who allow people to curse new members (usually first time posters) after they get frustrated with the threader ignorance of the operating system or it was a question that seem to be too far over their heads I read thread where you personally tell the new member to RTFM or ten-times worse. You allow some people to say bad things but when the new member defend his or herself, you're quick to band or close a most interesting thread ... That what trips me out and make me afraid to join. If 10 members from each bsdforum post a few of those saved threads or just google, they will fill the rest of this page. Other thanm it's no big deal.

Carpetsmoker:
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with the FreeBSD forums. We even shared some "vBulletin tricks". Nothing but love between us. As DF Administrator/Owner I post there myself from time to time.
I know you are all friends. Same people I read here are over there also.

Quote:
As for answering your threads: Sometimes people just don't know. Or your questions are complicated and it takes a lot of time to understand your problem & offer some assistance.
I totally agree. Most of the time it's more complicated trying to ask the question properly.

Quote:
No one is paid, we do this in our spare time. I (And many others) are happy to help and donate our time to you, many of your threads seem like large and rather complicated questions, this of course does not help in the amount of answers you will receive
Sorry I sound like that. I really did not mean it that way. I just wanted to see if anyone was at home and if not where was everybody. I was into those other thread and I could not help them and that when I realize we were all along.


Sorry I worry both you guys but I know what's up now and do understand things much better.
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Old 16th July 2010
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I just parse the threads that attract my attention; if I've nothing to contribute or it's been sufficient answered, I tend to skip butting in.
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Old 17th July 2010
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Well, that was an impressive critique, sharris. Fortunately, life goes on. As soon as you're moderating a 14,000-member forum, reading every post in every thread while booting off a dozen spammers every day, trying to get people to post coherent and readable posts, and suffering through the 1000th 'where is my desktop, I see only a black screen?!?!' question, and managing to keep every single member happy without a few feeling insulted or maligned, be sure to get back to me. I have no second thoughts about how I helped build and maintain a helpful and vibrant community, or about taking measures to prevent people or topics from bogging the forums down by useless, polarizing, repetitive or downright destructive and vicious discussions. I try to run a tight ship over there, not a popularity contest, though I have no reason to suspect that more than a handful of people would rather see me leave today than tomorrow. If you read 10% (or maybe even 1%) of my posts and still maintain that I'm a belliigerent unhelpful dictator, the FreeBSD Forums are probably not your cup of tea. To me, the vast number of active and returning members, and the steady influx of newcomers nice enough to press the 'thanks' button once in a while tell a completely different story. That's all I can say. Mostly because there are another 32 new posts on the FreeBSD Forums I have to go read now.

Last edited by DutchDaemon; 17th July 2010 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 17th July 2010
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Impressive??? What's impressive is all the work you do that I had no idea about. Under all of that pressure it would be easy to mis-judge people. There is no way to always be perfect no matter how hard you try. Just keep in mind , out of 14,000 members FreeBSD is only a dream to some and i am one of those peoples. . I'm doom to post many stupid questions until I understand. Anyway I do see your point and Thanks for the low-down.

Sam Harris
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