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Other BSD and UNIX/UNIX-like Any other flavour of BSD or UNIX that does not have a section of its own.

View Poll Results: What is the best browser for *BSD systems?
Firefox 36 50.00%
Mozilla 0 0%
SeaMonkey 2 2.78%
Netscape 0 0%
Opera 20 27.78%
Safari 0 0%
Internet Explorer 0 0%
Amaya 0 0%
Lynx 3 4.17%
Links 0 0%
Elinks 1 1.39%
Dillo 0 0%
w3m 3 4.17%
Konqueror 2 2.78%
Galeon 1 1.39%
Epiphany 1 1.39%
Flock 1 1.39%
Camino 0 0%
Skipstone 0 0%
Other 2 2.78%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 22nd October 2008
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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Here are some myths that is more up to date and by someone respected in the industry:
Firefox Myths
IE Myths
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Old 22nd October 2008
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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This one is not the test I saw but I can't find the ArsTechnica one with the best graphs. This one shows 4x over IE8. John Reisig has some good graphs. As do others if you google for browser javascript.
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Old 22nd October 2008
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drhowarddrfine, I'll search for the benchmarks and replies to that FF myths page later ... But I do know two things:
o The fact that IE sucks doesn't make Firefox a good browser.
o Opera feels like BSD, it's stable, solid, and engineered. Firefox feels like Linux, it's unstable, disorganized, and a sloppy mess.

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Originally Posted by vermaden View Post
Also post operating systems used.
Code:
Windows	318478	40.3 %
BSD	265911	33.6 %
Linux	144301	18.2 %
Mac	42733	5.4 %
Unknown	12390	1.5 %
Solaris	4884	0.6 %
Unix	259	0 %
OS/2	59	0 %
BeOS	46	0 %
HP UX	35	0 %
Others	35	0 %
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Old 22nd October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
slightly off-topic, but can't OpenBSD run FreeBSD binaries?
Not natively... and if he doesn't feel good about toggling kern.emul.linux, why would kern.emul.freebsd be any different?

Also, I don't believe it's been worked on in some time... compat_freebsd(8) still mentions FreeBSD 5.0..
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Old 22nd October 2008
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Me thinks it doesn't really matter whether your Firefox is better than my Opera. What matters is that we have good browser alternatives.

If everyone were to use IE then that would give MS the freedom to churn out mediocre, bug-ridden, non-standard/non-compatible, insecure by default crap ... and in this MS utopia we would all be running the same browser along with the same spyware/worms/viruses.
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Old 22nd October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
o The fact that IE sucks doesn't make Firefox a good browser.
I'm not talking usability alone. My main complaints are technical abilities. IE is incompetent. Based on technical proficiency, Firefox runs rings around IE and spits in its face.

As far as Opera goes, it was Firefox that was brought up but Opera is an excellent browser; as is Safari and Chrome. I mostly use Firefox because of its developer tools but also some other add-ons I like.

Last edited by drhowarddrfine; 22nd October 2008 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ephemera View Post
Me thinks it doesn't really matter whether your Firefox is better than my Opera. What matters is that we have good browser alternatives.

To each their own, be it telnet or FooBar6000
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Old 23rd October 2008
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Another thing on the seamonkey front - xkcd's long tooltips. Last I checked, firefox still cuts them off, seamonkey doesn't.
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Old 23rd October 2008
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They work fine in FF for me.

Interesting what he's doing. He's going through the whole XHTML thing, with xml stylesheets, declarations and so on, yet serves it as html which negates everything he's done and he uses the wrong doctype.
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Old 23rd October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post



slightly off-topic, but can't OpenBSD run FreeBSD binaries?


Theoretically speaking yes

Code:
$ more sysctl.conf | grep kern.emul.freebsd 
#kern.emul.freebsd=1            # enable running FreeBSD binaries
but in practical terms the answer is no. In order to run FreeBSD binaries
on OpenBSD one needs FreeBSD libraries from ports. This is the comment
about freebsd_lib

Quote:
These libraries are part of the FreeBSD compatibility options
for OpenBSD. These libraries provide support for binaries built
on FreeBSD 2.2.x, 3.x and 4.x systems.
Obviously, FreeBSD is long way from 4.x. I think that the FreeBSD compatibility layer is more of legacy which was very important in late nineties when there was very little third party software ported to OpenBSD. I personally do not know of anybody who is running FreeBSD binaries on OpenBSD.

Linux compatibility layer might have very soon the similar faith. As more and more software is ported to OpenBSD and as the Linux is moving completely towards 2.6 kernel and ALSA there is little interest among developers to catch up with those changes. Linux compatibility layer was important because of Flash for instance but as Flash 9 for Linux requires ALSA there is no real interest in keeping compatibility alive.
Linux-Opera 9.6 is ported thanks to the efforts of Nikolay but I am not sure how long will that last. The major kernel work will be needed to make Linux binaries compiled on 2.6 kernel run on OpenBSD. As you saw from couple comments most OpenBSD users share my sentiment when it comes to turning on existing Linux compatibility layer (It is off by default and that how it should stay:-) )

Personally, I would really like to see Midori stable and Dillo2 taking off.
Dillo2 with working OpenSSL and possibly JS engine would be an ideal browser for people who use OpenBSD on their desktops.

Last edited by Oko; 23rd October 2008 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 23rd October 2008
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Quote:
Me thinks it doesn't really matter whether your Firefox is better than my Opera. What matters is that we have good browser alternatives.
Indeed, a free, open, en competitive market is best for everyone, at it's height in 2000 IE had about 95% market share, which is far from a free market ... Things are improving on this front (Thanks to Firefox).

Quote:
Interesting what he's doing. He's going through the whole XHTML thing, with xml stylesheets, declarations and so on, yet serves it as html which negates everything he's done and he uses the wrong doctype.
Many people do this, mostly for two reasons: 1) Their documents are not quite 100% XHTML compliant, meaning Opera/Firefox/etc. somtimes fail to parse them, and 2) IE compatibility.
It is trivial to detect the browser capabilities and use text/html or application/xml+xhtml appropriately.
`IE compatibility' and text/html is often used as an excuse to hide the fact that the document is not 100% valid XHTML ..
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Old 23rd October 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
Many people do this, mostly for two reasons: 1) Their documents are not quite 100% XHTML compliant, meaning Opera/Firefox/etc. somtimes fail to parse them, and 2) IE compatibility.
I find most people use XHTML because they want to use the latest and greatest yet are unaware that just setting the doctype to xhtml does not mean it gets served that way. Using xhtml and serving it as html doesn't make any sense. XHTML vs HTML

The modern browsers don't have any problem parsing XHTML if it is written correctly.
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Old 22nd November 2008
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I just want to let people know that I have been using the latest Midori 1.0 (it is still in alpha stage) for the past week or so on the OpenBSD 4.4 current (it is actually in the snapshot of the packages). I personally have not have any troubles although some people had troubles with starting OpenSSL. IMHO we might be just a months away from the release of another major stable browser. Hopefully this would be a motivation for Opera to come out finally open source.
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Old 23rd November 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
I just want to let people know that I have been using the latest Midori 1.0 (...)
Its 0.1.0 actually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
Hopefully this would be a motivation for Opera to come out finally open source.
I doubt that this will make them open source Opera, but Midori is indeed a great minimalistic browser.

There also arora browser (something like Midori but QT4 based):
http://code.google.com/p/arora/
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Old 23rd November 2008
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I played around with Vimperator a bit today, it's nice, too bad the crappy firefox backend shows so often through the neat Vi(m) UI.
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Old 25th November 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermaden View Post
Its 0.1.0 actually



I doubt that this will make them open source Opera, but Midori is indeed a great minimalistic browser.

There also arora browser (something like Midori but QT4 based):
http://code.google.com/p/arora/
I might have to give Midori a try. But, why - oh why - does every browser have to be gtk or qt4 based!!!
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Old 25th November 2008
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Quote:
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I played around with Vimperator a bit today, it's nice, too bad the crappy firefox backend shows so often through the neat Vi(m) UI.
Does that work like a Firefox plugin - or is it a separate application?
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Old 25th November 2008
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It's a firefox extension.
Although in this case `extension' is something of a understatement ... More like a firefox UI makeover.
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Old 26th November 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
I might have to give Midori a try. But, why - oh why - does every browser have to be gtk or qt4 based!!!
Try http://www.dillo.org/ , now based on FLTK IIRC.

GTK, Qt, and WxWidgets are what? Like the most popular gui toolkits that are _not_ platform specific! I don't count AWT/Swing/SWT since I rarely see these used outside Java; things like the common Windows and OSX gear are more popular, but less portable ^_^.



Personally, I don't care whether a program is GTK or Qt based, unless it sucks in a lot of Gnome-related or KDE libraries. What render the web browser uses, and how well the java script engine (if any!) deals with common surfing -> is important ;-)
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Old 26th November 2008
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Quote:
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how well the java script engine (if any!) deals with common surfing -> is important ;-)
Firefox's javascript engine, coming out in the soon to be released version 3.1, will be up to 40x faster than IE8's engine and the fastest of all. Google's Chrome is only slightly behind that.
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