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Old 5th November 2009
IronForge IronForge is offline
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Default OBSD 4.6 Installed - Problem building Kernel for -current

Greetings:
I'm on Lynx, so pls bear with the syntax. etc.
I just installed 4.6 via the install46.iso on CD, and was trying to move up to -current.
I've tried to (why am I saying "I tried to" instead of "I did"? 'cause ocicat or jggimi will tell me I didn't) go by the FAQ(?) Chapter 5 procedures.
I updated src, ports, and was trying to "makeclean&&makedepend&&make"; and the box gave me the "make: don't know how to make newvers" after awhile and quit on me.
I can't make install, when I get to the "cp bsd /nbsd", gives me the "no such file or directory" Since the new kernel wasn't made - HeyNow!!!
I've been able to build kernels with no problem before.
I checked the -current-notes (forgot the real name); and the latest notice was with PostgreSQL last month.

Here's the rhetorical Q: Am I forgetting something? Thanks
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Old 5th November 2009
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Ah, Ironforge, you missed the most important step.

You -must- start from the latest snapshot. Not from -release. You are attempting to build a system that is now about 4 months beyond 4.6-release, and there are numerous architectural changes between -release and -current.

The 'Following -current' FAQ lists all of those architectural changes. Once you are actually at -current, you can use that FAQ to keep up with architectural changes, though for some of the more complicated ones, you will find that upgrading to a snapshot with the changes already in them would be significantly simpler.

So, as FAQ 5 told you, and as the Following -current FAQ tells you ... start with the most recent binary. That would be a -snapshot-, not -release.

In the case of "don't know how to make newvers" -- you'll find the architectural change -- to the config program -- listed in the Following -current FAQ, it was a change effective October 19.
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Old 5th November 2009
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronForge View Post
I just installed 4.6 via the install46.iso on CD, and was trying to move up to -current.
See the table in Section 5.3.2 of the FAQ:

http://openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldBinary

If you are presently have -release installed & your goal is to move to -current, it is far easier to simply install the latest snapshot. Your only other alternative is to perform all steps mentioned in Following -current:

http://openbsd.org/faq/current.html
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Old 5th November 2009
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The only -Project supported- route to an initial -current is from the most recent snapshot.

Source upgrades are possible, obviously, but the skills required may be significant, so the Project does not support it.

OTOH, staying -current once already there, via rebuilding from source is supported.
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Old 5th November 2009
IronForge IronForge is offline
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Default Notes on Current

Thank you, jggimi:

Been burning a few of you LiveCD/DVDs this week. The KDE version won't boot (some "can't mount root msg"); but the XFCE / Fluxbox versions did, so guess it's some other issue (it's an old box). If you want the error msg, please let me know via pvtmsg - thanks.

On Firefox on LiveCD now. The facial expressions are better using text characters instead of the images - they do look a bit lame in practice.

Enough digressions from the subject thread. I read (instead of scanning) the "following current" page again - the PostreSQL entry was the FIRST one (earliest at top). A recent entry covered the new config(8) requirement for building the new Kernel - D'OH!! I KNEW something was amiss - LMAO.

Q1: So, you're saying that the most direct way to "install -current" is to install46.iso (and similar install media from primary/secondary mirrors from e.g.,ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/i386/) - correct?

Q2: Reviewing the Install Guide, would choosing the (U)pgrade option from the -release install disk(s) accomplish the same thing?

Q-SIDEBAR: For the New User(since most Users are Developers, and all "dev work" is done on -current), would it be prudent to suggest (to the webmaster) that FAQ Chapter 5.1 (brief explanation of -release, stable, and -current/snapshot) be referenced in Chapt4.1-2 (text and/or link to snapshot), before the User burns his/her install media?

Thanks

Last edited by IronForge; 5th November 2009 at 07:15 PM. Reason: clarify primary/secondary mirror and suggest direct link to snapshot
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Old 5th November 2009
roundkat roundkat is offline
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If I may add some advice I received here..

When you do follow -current and you want to update to the
"latest -current" download the latest iso and then use
"sysmerge"
Sysmerge is an awesome utility but it does not give you a fresh install with your configs..
so YMMV..

In the past I have tried to follow -current and since my boxes
are at remote location I followed the -stable instructions
which do work in most cases unless your
"snapshot" is too far out of date..

Bottom line, for me, I have moved back to -stable as I want
my computer to "work for me" not work on my computer..

following -current is fun.. if you like that kind of stuff..

good luck...
rk
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Old 5th November 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronForge View Post
Q1: So, you're saying that the most direct way to "install -current" is to install46.iso (and similar install media from primary/secondary mirrors from e.g.,ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/i386/) - correct?
Any snapshot installation media (cd*.iso, floppy*.fs, etc.). The site need not be the main server, as most of the major mirrors have the snapshots, too.

Let me be clear, and say this again: It is not only the most direct method, it is also the only supported method.
Quote:
Q2: Reviewing the Install Guide, would choosing the (U)pgrade option from the -release install disk(s) accomplish the same thing?
No. The only difference between and install and an upgrade is the former reformats filesystems, and the latter prevents the *etc*.tgz file sets from being unpacked. If you use upgrade with -release filesets, you end up with a -release system.
Quote:
Q-SIDEBAR: For the New User(since most Users are Developers, and all "dev work" is done on -current), would it be prudent to suggest (to the webmaster) that FAQ Chapter 5.1 (brief explanation of -release, stable, and -current/snapshot) be referenced in Chapt4.1-2 (text and/or link to snapshot), before the User burns his/her install media?
No, most users are -not- developers. The Project developers number around 90 or so, and that number fluctuates over time. There are many thousands of users.

FAQ 4 is for the new user. It is recommended that new users start with -release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundkat View Post
If I may add some advice I received here...
Sysmerge can automate, or make semi-automatic, architectural changes that relate to configuration files located in /etc or /var. It cannot eliminate flag-days and other manual-effort changes, such as the rebuilding of config I mentioned earlier in this thread. Sysmerge is -not- a replacement for reading the Following -current FAQ, and having the commensurate skills to manage the changes.

That said, there are many people who upgrade from snapshot to snapshot, and who use sysmerge to pick up configuration file changes, and never build from source at all. And there are others who only build from source to stay -current.

What works for one environment may not work for another. I have a laptop that I used to upgrade from snap to snap, using mergemaster (the precursor to sysmerge), and still conduct binary upgrades, but with releases I build myself.

I also have a server that has never had anything but builds from source since its 3.5-current snapshot installation more than 5 years ago. It still runs -current built from regularly from sources; the latest rebuild on that platform was over the weekend to pick up the NULL pointer dereference patch.

Why did I stop using snap-to-snap upgrades on that laptop? I did not want uncommitted patches, which are often included with snapshots to give them broad testing prior to committment. Why do I do source builds on that server? The configuration requires a custom kernel, and I need a build machine for the releases (snapshots, really) I make, anyway, so this server is my build machine.

----

There is no single solution that fits all needs, which is why we have choices. But we should use supported management methods, if we want developers to support our use of their software.

Last edited by jggimi; 5th November 2009 at 08:40 PM. Reason: typo, clarity
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Old 6th November 2009
roundkat roundkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jggimi View Post
FAQ 4 is for the new user. It is recommended that new users start with -release.
--
There is no single solution that fits all needs, which is why we have choices. But we should use supported management methods, if we want developers to support our use of their software.
Well Said...
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Old 6th November 2009
IronForge IronForge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocicat View Post
See the table in Section 5.3.2 of the FAQ:

http://openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#BldBinary

If you are presently have -release installed & your goal is to move to -current, it is far easier to simply install the latest snapshot. Your only other alternative is to perform all steps mentioned in Following -current:

http://openbsd.org/faq/current.html
Thanks, Gents.
I downloaded and installed the install46.iso from a snapshot mirror, installed and rebuilt the system. I'm having problems installing packages, so after I RTFM a bit more, may post another thread in that category - thanks.
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Old 6th November 2009
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronForge View Post
I'm having problems installing packages, so after I RTFM a bit more, may post another thread in that category - thanks.
-current can be a volatile environment especially when it comes to synchronizing snapshots to what -current packages are available. Depending upon timing, flag days, etc., packages may be unable to be installed. If the application is required immediately, the only other option is to build the application from source. For small applications, this can be trivial (depending upon the speed of the hardware used...), but for massive applications such as Java's JDK, OpenOffice, GNOME, or KDE, building can take several hours.

Those that live in the -current world are expected to be flexible & be able to deal with the problems which can arise. If this is more volatility than you care to manage, then -release or -stable may be better choices. Per Section 5.1 of the FAQ (emphasis added...):
Quote:
Most users should be running either -stable or -release. That being said, many people do run -current on production systems, and it is important that people do so to identify bugs and test new features. However, if you don't know how to properly describe, diagnose and deal with a problem, don't tell yourself (or anyone else) that you are "helping the project" by running -current.
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Old 7th November 2009
J65nko J65nko is offline
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I have been running -current for a couple of years.

Because of the of the volatility, mentioned by Ocicat, I use multiple desktop machines. If a newer snapshot or binary packages do not work correctly, I still have another desktop machine I can fall back on.

This is what I call RAIC (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Computers)
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Old 10th November 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J65nko View Post
I have been running -current for a couple of years.

Because of the of the volatility, mentioned by Ocicat, I use multiple desktop machines. If a newer snapshot or binary packages do not work correctly, I still have another desktop machine I can fall back on.
Same goes for stable: sometimes there's cosmetic bugs, or with the ACPI changes about a year ago, it installs but won't run on specific combos of motherboards and RAID cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J65nko View Post
This is what I call RAIC (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Computers)
Excellent :-)

Using opensource apps, one finds it a lot easier to move personal settings and data around. Firefox is ace in this: by copying the profile around, you even carry all your plugins/addons and of course all cookies and passwords
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