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Old 12th May 2011
rpindy rpindy is offline
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Default Updating Wikipedia screenshots

On the OpenBSD Wikipedia page, many of the screenshots are about five years old. About a year ago, someone posted in the discussion forum about updating the photos but they have been the same since. I replied a few days ago saying I'd do it with no objections, so here are the old and proposed new screenshots. Let me know what you think and if I should adjust or change anything in any of the new ones. I also have a link to this post on the Wikipedia discussion section for the OpenBSD page.

Old: JWM screenshot
New: GNOME screenshot

(Note: I decided to switch JWM with GNOME since it is used more and would give OpenBSD an image of being workstation-friendly and not only minimalist.)

Old: OpenBSD 3.8 booting
New: OpenBSD 4.9 booting

Old: OpenBSD 3.8 fvwm
New: OpenBSD 4.9 fvwm

Old: OpenBSD 4.4 Xfce
New: OpenBSD 4.9 Xfce

Updating the usage survey graph near the top of the wiki might also be useful if a more recent survey has been/can be done.
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Old 12th May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpindy View Post
I decided to switch JWM with GNOME since it is used more
Can I get proof of this quote? (Note: I don't care what Ubuntu runs) Virtually all of the openbsd machines I've seen (not just my own) run cwm or similar minimalist wm.
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Old 13th May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpindy View Post
Let me know what you think and if I should adjust or change anything in any of the new ones.
The purpose for posting GNOME or XFCE screenshots is only to convey that common window managers (crutches... ) are available on OpenBSD. But it is also worth pointing out that other alternatives exist -- cwm being one of them. Personally, I think have screenshots of both have value.
Quote:
JWM...
I suspect the point of having some xdm-like login screen shown is to again show something uniquely found in the OpenBSD environment. For a Wikipedia article, give them their eye candy. Those who understand OpenBSD will see beyond it. These types of articles aren't really designed for seasoned OpenBSD users anyways.
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Updating the usage survey graph near the top of the wiki might also be useful if a more recent survey has been/can be done.
While I agree with the intent of this statement, I tend to doubt there are more current statistics, although anyone updating such an article needs to do the due diligence of confirming/updating.

OpenBSD is an operating system by experienced engineers for experienced engineers. While anyone is welcomed to use it, the community is neither large enough nor really cares to spoonfeed those that don't get it. While this may seem unfriendly or cold, it simply is reality.
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Old 26th May 2011
joekiser joekiser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpindy View Post
Let me know what you think and if I should adjust or change anything in any of the new ones.

...snip...

(Note: I decided to switch JWM with GNOME since it is used more and would give OpenBSD an image of being workstation-friendly and not only minimalist.)
I would recommend against using Gnome since its future is uncertain on the BSD's. Also, in two years' time, Gnome 2.x will be deprecated and a screenshot of Gnome 2.x will probably seem ancient (except for RHEL/Scientific Linux users).


No objections here.

What changed here? Xsetroot? At least on my OpenBSD installation, the default Xorg config looked like the first screenshot. Maybe a note that this is the default WM on an OpenBSD install?

Redundant, given that there was a Gnome screenshot earlier, and this is just the default XFce configuration. To address the workstation-friendly issue, I would dump the Gnome screenshot and just show XFce, since the screenshot will be relevant for a longer period.

Quote:
Updating the usage survey graph near the top of the wiki might also be useful if a more recent survey has been/can be done.
http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/s...ingSystems.htm is the most recent statistic I've seen, although it is flawed in that it really only measures the combination of using OpenBSD on the desktop, and accessing Wikipedia through a web browser.
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Old 26th May 2011
rpindy rpindy is offline
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I went ahead and updated the page, since there were no comments on the Wiki discussion section. To the previous poster, I put both GNOME and Xfce although it is somewhat redundant since the latter was already there. Let me know how it looks if you ever want to check out the page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD
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Old 26th May 2011
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It looks ugly as a shit (it is completely against the spirit of OpenBSD (minimalism)) and it will be reverted its originals as soon as I have some time to burn editing Wikipedia pages!

Last edited by Oko; 26th May 2011 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 27th May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
It looks ugly as a shit (it is completely against the spirit of OpenBSD (minimalism)) and it will be reverted its originals as soon as I have some time to burn editing Wikipedia pages!
Looking at the article, I think there are too many screenshots now. I would keep the FVWM one, place the console screenshot underneath the OpenBSD logo (look at FreeBSD's article for example), and remove everything else (including the usage graph, which is now six years old). The article itself probably needs some restructuring, and I would do it but I hate editing Wikipedia articles anymore since it is inevitably going to be someone else's "turf."
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Old 27th May 2011
BSDfan666 BSDfan666 is offline
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I don't understand why anyone added screenshots of X11 to begin with, that has always been an area of personal customization on Unix; none of the pictures there reflect OpenBSD in any way.. you can't even tell what operating system they're hosted on.
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Old 27th May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSDfan666 View Post
I don't understand why anyone added screenshots of X11 to begin with, that has always been an area of personal customization on Unix; none of the pictures there reflect OpenBSD in any way.. you can't even tell what operating system they're hosted on.
+1

Absolutely agree with you BSDfan666. I will never forget a comment of an experienced OpenBSD guru when asked by an idiot to provide a screenshot. He flat out refused. When request was repeated this time with the argumentation that it could help spread out the word about OpenBSD and wider user base he replayed:"You do not get it! Don't you? We want to keep people like you, those who need a screenshots, as far as possible from our beloved OpenBSD".
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Old 27th May 2011
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What you're saying is what I was trying to get at- any DE/WM will look basically the same on any OS. Not to say OpenBSD with GNOME is the equivalent of Ubuntu, it's just that OpenBSD can be a minimalist server/desktop or a full-fledged Linux alternative.

Alas, it seems that making this post and waiting two weeks wasn't enough- I had to actually post the screenshots to get the hate mail come in. I don't take it personally however as it seems par for the course when OpenBSD is anywhere in the picture.
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Old 27th May 2011
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I just went to the OpenBSD Wiki page and realized it was changed as Joe Kiser suggested. I mentioned this in the discussion section and hopefully we'll get some feedback. I think this is for the better- it eliminates unnecessary and redundant screenshots as well as the old usage graph. That graph coupled with the old screenshots makes it seem like the article had been neglected the past five years.

I look forward to getting some seasoned Wikipedia editors' take on it.
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Old 27th May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpindy View Post
it's just that OpenBSD can be a minimalist server/desktop or a full-fledged Linux alternative.
But OpenBSD is NOT a full-fledged Linux alternative. It has no commercial support to speak of for any desktop application including something as widely used as Flash. It can not be used for scientific computing for instance even on the most naive level due to the same reason. I use MATLAB on the daily base and unfortunately the only way to do that is to VNC on my Linux cluster or to boot my Laptop into Windows 7.

Last edited by Oko; 27th May 2011 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 29th May 2011
lumiwa lumiwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
+1

Absolutely agree with you BSDfan666. I will never forget a comment of an experienced OpenBSD guru when asked by an idiot to provide a screenshot. He flat out refused. When request was repeated this time with the argumentation that it could help spread out the word about OpenBSD and wider user base he replayed:"You do not get it! Don't you? We want to keep people like you, those who need a screenshots, as far as possible from our beloved OpenBSD".
Why is an OpenBSD public OS?? Why not the OpenBSD users have a closed type of club and enjoy your OS and please don't ask for Adobe reader, Skype,...,etc.
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Old 29th May 2011
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Originally Posted by lumiwa View Post
Why is an OpenBSD public OS?? Why not the OpenBSD users have a closed type of club and enjoy your OS and please don't ask for Adobe reader, Skype,...,etc.
We have never asked for Adobe reader and Skype. People who tried to bring up "issue" of Skype on OpenBSD mailing lists were repeatedly flamed. Adobe reader version which used to work via Linux emulation (probably not after the latest changes in Linux emulation layer) has been obsolete (version 7) and useless. The only thing I can think off that it will be useful is filling PDF forms and even that can be done with open source readers now or more radically using things like pdftk which has just been committed.

We have in-deed asked about the Flash on Adobe web-site and were ignored much like FreeBSD for instance. We have not asked about the Flash to be able to watch YouTube but because it is unfortunately some times needed to manage consumer class routers.

One of current developers has offered in the past to sign NDA with Opera. This is the first and the last case of such an offer by any OpenBSD affiliated person. For the record he was not developer at that time. He was promptly dismissed by Opera spoke person. For the record Opera does NOT run on current via Linux emulation after most recent changes the emulation.

So, yes thank you for your suggestion. I think it is actually very, very good. I am starting a process of founding closed OpenBSD user club and only the members of that club can use OpenBSD from now on. I already contacted Theo and Bob about that matter and you can expect soon that OpenBSD cvs server goes down

Last edited by Oko; 29th May 2011 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 29th May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
We have never asked for Adobe reader and Skype. People who tried to bring up "issue" of Skype on OpenBSD mailing lists were repeatedly flamed. Adobe reader version which used to work via Linux emulation (probably not after the latest changes in Linux emulation layer) has been obsolete (version 7) and useless. The only thing I can think off that it will be useful is filling PDF forms and even that can be done with open source readers now or more radically using things like pdftk which has just been committed.

We have in-deed asked about the Flash on Adobe web-site and were ignored much like FreeBSD for instance. We have not asked about the Flash to be able to watch YouTube but because it is unfortunately some times needed to manage consumer class routers.

One of current developers has offered in the past to sign NDA with Opera. This is the first and the last case of such an offer by any OpenBSD affiliated person. For the record he was not developer at that time. He was promptly dismissed by Opera spoke person. For the record Opera does NOT run on current via Linux emulation after most recent changes the emulation.

So, yes thank you for your suggestion. I think it is actually very, very good. I am starting a process of founding closed OpenBSD user club and only the members of that club can use OpenBSD from now on. I already contacted Theo and Bob about that matter and you can expect soon that OpenBSD cvs server goes down
It is great!! And please also stop complaining about Linux distros how are more and more Windows like and so and so... Live other OSes and enjoy in your OS as many people prefer typewriter machines against computer still...
Have a good one....
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Old 29th May 2011
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It is great!! And please also stop complaining about Linux distros how are more and more Windows like and so and so... Live other OSes and enjoy in your OS as many people prefer typewriter machines against computer still...
Have a good one....
I complained about Linux? You must be kidding. You hijacked the thread in which we were discussing Wikipedia article about OpenBSD. The Linux was mentioned once in one of my statement which was refuting the claim that OpenBSD is a good replacement for Linux. It was not mentioned in negative connotation by any stretch of imagination.

I honestly could care less what is going on with Linux. I cold heartedly had to install Linux (Scientific Linux to be precise) on one of my clusters because there are no CUDA (GPU computing) drivers for Solaris or NetBSD. Motivated by your post I am going to install on Tuesday after memorial day Windows 7 on that cluster. I have been using Windows 7 on couple of machines where I needed MATLAB (Skype; and Microsoft Office to lesser extend ))It seems rock solid . It is also a damn secure system behind that OpenBSD firewall of mine

Last edited by Oko; 29th May 2011 at 09:20 PM.
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