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Other BSD and UNIX/UNIX-like Any other flavour of BSD or UNIX that does not have a section of its own.

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Old 28th May 2008
corey_james corey_james is offline
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Default Is linux getting worse? ( troll )

yes yes this is a troll - i don't care :P

I don't use linux much ... and in fact i haven't used it in about 2 years but unfortunately been required in the last week or two to do some poking.

I don't understand what people see in linux, bloody colours everywhere.
Can't do an 'ls' without colours
Can't view a man page without some really weird formatting and colours

What ever happened to the back on white / white on black plain terminal ?
Is all this to 'convert' windows users to a nice pretty command line?


argh is all i can say ... ARGH!!!

</rant>


edit: I'd just like to correct the above '%s/linux/GNU\/Linux/g'
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Old 28th May 2008
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Some of the defaults seem aimed at the newer users.

That colored ls is in your profile, .bash_profile if you took the defaults, or possibly .bashrc. You can always turn it off with ls --color=no.
As for me, I find they can be convenient, but not that green they use for executables, so I change that. I believe you copy /etc/DIR_COLORS to your $HOME directory, and then you can mess around with it. in a typical 24 line xterm, doing pgedown twice should get you to the part you'd want to change. Oh, in your $HOME directory, you call .dir_colors

HTH.
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Old 28th May 2008
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Actually, I rather liked the colours from ls on Debian Sarges bash setup out of the box hehe.

With few exceptions I'm not very found of most GNU, programs, primary toolkit, licensing terms, or coding standards.


Linux on the other hand.. The kernel is not perfect but it's still better then some of the PHP/HTML sludge I've encountered code wise.
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Old 29th May 2008
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Now let me get this straight. Corey_James comes onto a BSD forum and writes that he prefers BSD to Linux. Sigh, he can't even troll correctly.....

I better shut up as I might have some postfix questions in the near future.
Corey James is great--a credit to these forums. (He has a short attention span, so he'll only notice the last lines.)
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Old 29th May 2008
corey_james corey_james is offline
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hahah yeah you're right

it's not just BSD, solaris doesn't do all this colourisation and bs to make things 'pretty'. I just don't see the point!
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Old 29th May 2008
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Seriously, I believe BSD has options for it--yup, in FreeBSD it's ls -G. It can be handy if you're in a hurry, I just don't like the default colors, at least in RH based systems.

I *think* (I don't know about Solaris) that it's actually an option and some flavors of Linux put in the skel files. Yup, I see that it's an alias put in by default. If you type alias you'll see it. So unset it in the .bash_profile or .bashrc. (Assuming you haven't changed the default shell.)
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Old 29th May 2008
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The problem with the default colors with most of the GNU tools is that they only work on a black background, on a white background some text is unreadable.
And the default background color of xterm is white (Except on Linux ofcourse, where "distro developers" feel the need to change the defaults for 3rd party software...)

GNU ls has the "--color" option, which is the same as the -G option on FreeBSD ... Maybe some systems enable it by default through some alias or something? (Messing with defaults again ... *sigh*)

The colors on BSD work well on both a white and black background, although I'm not sure if this is by design or accidental...

Anyway, I don't know if linux is getting worse ... But I do know these threads/rants are getting worse
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Old 29th May 2008
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i could make this a LOT worse and start talking about the sym link from /bin/bash to /bin/sh!! hahaha
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Old 29th May 2008
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Thats nothing, many distros tends to have vim besides vi. But vim is actually elvis. I got very disapointed with such game.
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Old 29th May 2008
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In Linux, when launched from the symlink, bash is run with the posix option.

/bin/sh
works as
/bin/bash --posix

This is not trivial to me.
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Old 29th May 2008
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I agree, the "fisher-price"-isms are just annoying, I mean, Why do people find flashy themes and large coloured text appealing?
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Old 29th May 2008
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Hello,


Linux isn't getting worse - *BSD is getting better!
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Old 29th May 2008
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Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey_james View Post
What ever happened to the back on white / white on black plain terminal ?
Is all this to 'convert' windows users to a nice pretty command line?


C'mon - green on black!!!
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Old 29th May 2008
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Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardpl View Post
Thats nothing, many distros tends to have vim besides vi. But vim is actually elvis. I got very disapointed with such game.
In Slackware, vim is vim! vi is elvis. I know some other distros use vim with vi compatibility mode as the vi.

I want vi to be vi and vim to be vim - is that too much to ask?!
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Old 29th May 2008
corey_james corey_james is offline
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i don't think any system but maybe solaris has 'vi'
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Old 29th May 2008
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Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey_james View Post
i don't think any system but maybe solaris has 'vi'
What do the *BSD systems use for vi? (sorry, I'm posting from Slackware right now, so I can't do a quick --version check)
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Old 29th May 2008
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nvi.
Slackware and Debian use elvis, most others use vim. RH has vim-enhanced and vim-minimal.
As for bin/sh and POSIX, I'm not sure it's always the case. When I'm ensuring that something is portable, I either ssh into my BSD machine or use dash, created by Debian, I think but avaiable for others, which seems to be closest to sh. For instance sh (in Linux) will support $UID (which is like id -u, gives the UID number) which can mess you up if the script is also going to be used on AIX.

As for me, after the job change, I figured I could either moan about it every day, or get used to it. I'm happier getting used to it.

It's nice to be able to type yum -y update and walk away. (On CentOS, made for the enterprise, not on Fedora--on Fedora, that's like doing portupgrade -a and walking away--you might get away with it and you might not.)

My biggest complaint about RH systems is how Gnome-centric they are--for example, several things, including sound, are tied to ConsoleKit which is a Gnome-ish thing.
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Old 29th May 2008
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I believe vi on FreeBSD is nvi. It really pisses of my vim-loving co-worker that he can't get vim to work the same on FreeBSD as on Linux, and that he can't figure his way around nvi. I just tell him to use ee.

The thing that *really* pisses me off about Linux, though, is the horrible kludges and hacks they have for network configuration. ifconfig for the phsyical wired interfaces, wiconfig for wireless interfaces, wpa_supplicant if you need WPA, brctl for bridged interfaces, tunctl for tun/tap devices, something else for vlan devices, something else for link aggregation, and so on and so on. It's a friggin' mess, to say the least. And if you do things in the wrong order, it can be a royal pain to untangle. Debian at least tries to hide the mess via ifupdown and /etc/network/interfaces, but even that isn't all roses.

Coming from FreeBSD where ifconfig is used to configure network interfaces, and where /etc/rc.conf handles things for boot, trying to do anything beyond "dhclient eth0" on Linux is enough to make you go grey or bald.

And things get even more fun when you try to use Xen. [URGH!!]
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Old 29th May 2008
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I agree with corey_jones on the colorization as I am an old amber (dos) guy an woul rather see casesensitive directory name lke on ye old 16bit doss, my main petpeve with Solaris is lack ox a editor such as pico or nano as they are my two favorite opensourc command lline editors, because the closely emulate the old edit program from IBM dos. Unfortunately nothing I have trued will make them play nicely with Solaris?
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Old 29th May 2008
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I think sun have more brains than to put crap like pico or nano on their systems.

Despite what you may think, vi is an important part of unix and if you don't know it you're SEVERELY disadvantaged. It's one thing you can guarantee will be on the OS.

You could always use cat or dd
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