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Old 22nd February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Default five reasons why OpenBSD is recommended to newbies within the BSD family

Hi everybody !

While admitting that all three BSD Giants are excellent , mature , and secure operating systems .. I must confess -as a total newbie- that OpenBSD is the kindest to newbies for the following reasons at least :

* Straitforward installation steps , be it on intel or on powerpc machines ..

* Great documentation faqs .. although sometimes a beginner can find it hard to understand some technical jargon and so may fail to fully understand content ..

* secure-by-default settings ..

* OpenBSD is ready to connect and surf the web right after installation ..

* OpenBSD is clean and tidy as far as the package system is concerned .. a beginner won't get lost searching for the right ports.tar.gz (think : NetBSD'S pkgsrc.**.tar.gz) .. as well as with packages .. they well represent their respective OS versions ..

again that's a merely newbie evaluation which may not make sense for davanced users .. so please don't get upset ..
Some would favor pcBSD .. but the PBI philosophy is anti-unix as packages gets duplicated ..

We love and respect all the BSDs ..

Last edited by daemonfowl; 22nd February 2012 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 23rd February 2012
aleunix aleunix is offline
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Unfortunately one big issue with BSD system is the inferior hardware support.
The situation could be better if was at least equal at the linux system.

Despite the waste of the space (more limited starting PCBSD 9) i would like have a similar solution even as option on linux because have even benefits.
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Old 23rd February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Amiiiiico ! Come state ? :-)

well , I see it differently .. I have successfully installed OpenBSD on dell/ibook/imac/acer/old xeon/hpcompaq/ .. so far I have no problems except an ibook's wi0 issue .. pcbsd uses kde4 which is still immature and problematic .. it crashed many times on this very laptop .. I liked sudolphin but again some features are unnecessary ..
Something I love about OpenBSD , the Team never chooses any package until it becomes ready both at the security level and at the stability level .. and this reminds you maybe, of renowned Slackware ..
Hardware support is a matter of time .. it is related to how many hands/minds are helping .. and to what extent the manufacturers are willful to offer drivers source codes
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Do pkg_add -i openbox will work out of the box after installation?
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
Something I love about OpenBSD , the Team never chooses any package until it becomes ready both at the security level and at the stability level ..
Huh? From Section 15.1 of the FAQ (emphasis maintained...):
Quote:
The packages and ports collection does NOT go through the same thorough security audit that is performed on the OpenBSD base system. Although we strive to keep the quality of the packages collection high, we just do not have enough human resources to ensure the same level of robustness and security.
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Old 23rd February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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mmm .. Ocicat caught me red-handed .. :-) .. maybe I'm mistaken here but then why does the team preserve some older versions instead of bleeding edge ??
is it simply because of compatibility issues ??
why do they drop many software ?
part of it is already in the "red quote" above : no enough human res ..
the other part is : high pkg collection quality (comes after )

Hi Vermaden ! .. yes it works unless what you mean is extra menus etc which you can set .. obconf ... anyway I am happy with fvwm/cwm ..
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleunix View Post
Unfortunately one big issue with BSD system is the inferior hardware support.
@aleunix, a more accurate way to phrase that would be, "I would prefer better support for my hardware."

There have been situations where, historically, particular types of hardware support has been better on the BSDs than Linux.

As for OpenBSD -- the project will NEVER accept a closed source solution for any hardware driver. There are many "open source" projects that will happily include a binary module supplied by a vendor, or who will sign non-disclosure agreements and keep vendor source code closed.

See the explanatory text in the left column for the OpenBSD 3.9-release song -- it is a good description of the OpenBSD Project's concern.
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Thanks so much @Jgimmi !! for better clearifying this point ..
wow , many creative puffy art ..
a question : does the OpenBSD Project refuse the binary modules because this contradicts its motto/goal/licence ? or because it constitutes a security risk ?
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
maybe I'm mistaken here but then why does the team preserve some older versions instead of bleeding edge ??
is it simply because of compatibility issues ??
why do they drop many software ?
Cite specific examples, daemonfowl.

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Old 23rd February 2012
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fvwm version itself .. most browsers .. apache ..
what I mean is that OpenBSD doesn't seem to hasten toward the last-version-of mania nor fringe-technology unless secure+stable+opensource+++++ ..
lol .. I've got a strange feeling that this thread upsets some of you .. well the title is simple and doesn't reveal any uppishness on my part as a total newbie .. it is a recommendation from a mere noob to his fellow noobs .. not an OS-war .. lol
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
does the OpenBSD Project refuse the binary modules because this contradicts its motto/goal/licence ? or because it constitutes a security risk ?
You must have missed the text I referred to. Left hand side of the 3.9 song.
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Old 23rd February 2012
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thanks @Jgimmi ! well pinpointed ..

Quote:
Hardware makers like them because they obscure the details of how to make their hardware work. They hide bugs and workarounds for bugs. Newer versions of blobs can weaken support for older hardware and motivate people to buy new hardware.
away with those blobs ! blob-free the world ! :-()
Great Theo , you're right ! a businessman remains a a business-mind ..

" .. encumbered forever by desire and ambition .. there is a hunger still unsatisfied .."
Pink Floyd - Division Bell .
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Old 23rd February 2012
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In another thread, I just wrote about a blob -- Opera:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jggimi View Post
This is a little off topic, but I've seen you mention "building" Opera in several threads

Opera is a closed source, proprietary product owned by Opera Software ASA. The www/opera port does not build from source, the 'make' merely extracts and installs the Opera Linux binary directly from the distfile, obtained from Opera Software. Read the Makefile in www/opera, and you will see:
Code:
 
NO_BUILD=    Yes
along with the installation commands.

1. On OpenBSD, Opera is restricted to i386 only, due to requiring the Linux compatibility ABI.

2. Opera cannot be distributed as an OpenBSD package due to license restrictions on use of the Opera binaries.
This is not "in" OpenBSD, this is a third party, userland program. The risks are lower than plopping unknown software into the kernel layer, as the application only has the authority of the user executing it. If you run it as root, however, you should be aware you have given it the authority to do whatever it wants.

Not only are third party ports not subject to formal audit -- in cases like this, they cannot be.
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
fvwm version itself .. most browsers .. apache ..
The predominant reason for everything in the OpenBSD project is that it is a small project. A small number of people can only get so much done. They have to prioritize, & be realistic about what their goals are, who they want to target, how much they can get done while maintaining a certain level of integrity in terms of process & final product.

As for Apache, the Apache Foundation changed their license in the 2.x era. This was found to be incompatible with the goals of the OpenBSD project, so Apache 1.3 was the last version integrated into OpenBSD's base installation. Patches & tweaks have been ongoing, & Apache 2.x is available in ports.

I do not follow fvwm, but I'm sure you can spend time reading through the archives of the project's mailing lists to find a definitive answer.
Quote:
I've got a strange feeling that this thread upsets some of you ..
In a way, you are advocating that lots of people should be using OpenBSD, & in particular those without experience. This does not scale -- especially given that the project itself is so small. The project also doesn't have a significant infrastructure for support -- especially for those who will not or cannot pay for support. Even on this site where some guidance is provided, you can count the number of people who have answered your questions on one hand. How much of their time is consumed answering your questions? How many more people who have minimal experience with Unix and/or OpenBSD can additionally come to this site & receive the same level of support consistently for free?

The OpenBSD project knows that it is small, & it has some stasis with its current size. It does not try to be something it isn't. Other Unix-like operating systems exist which have larger support infrastructures affiliated with their communities to provide a larger number of support options.

The end result is that those that stay with OpenBSD usually are those that have more experience & dig through either the documentation or source code to answer their own questions.

So to advocate that this is a project where all kinds of inexperienced people are come to have all of their problems resolved is just not realistic. The structure to support them is simply not there.

Last edited by ocicat; 23rd February 2012 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 23rd February 2012
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Thank you for the reminder, Ocicat. The n00bs who adjust the quickest, and seem to adapt in comfort are those who come with experience from some other *nix environments, Unix or Linux or perhaps another BSD. For those without that experience, the road is more difficult ... but it is not impossible. I'll quote myself from long ago...(where this is old, but a copy/paste from an even earlier posting elsewhere):
Quote:
I believe people should be comfortable coming here with no BSD experience and little or no technical background, but they must be willing to obtain both if they wish success.
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Old 24th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Ocicat , Jgimmi , thanks very much .. I'm learning new things

and yet I still consider OpenBSD the most likely to lead a noob to a successful Alternative OS the easiest way .. on legacy or new hardware .. ppc or intel
I'm not talking out of void although being a newbie .. examples ?
ok :

* I was using MacOSx 10.3.9 (Panther) on Bondie Blue .. that was the ultimate OSX solution possible .. so I was using insecure backdated software .. unless it be an offline gui OS , it's not anybody's solution ..
Now I'm running OpenBSD current on it .. with X working ..

* I was using MacOSX 10.4.11 (Tiger) on ibook Dual USB as the most recent possible OSX version .. still , it run slowly and hang several times .. so ? I installed OpenBSD which was warmly welcome ..

* an old Intel Xeon Precision Workstation never had been in full extasy until OpenBSD visit ...
* my old fragile tiny dell which ran windows .. never felt shorter of breath since openbsd as installed on it .. I used to use the OS for surfing/xchat/amule/..etc ..
* my current Acer Aspire 5610 .. there was a PcBSD here before .. but the PBI thing wasn't my cup of tea .. X server broke many times .. unneeded fancy features .. unstable kde4 .. security comes last .. not to talk about another important feature OpenBSD would not deny its users from : gaining knowledge .. (will+time are needed though ..)

Truth be said , slackware & debian worked well .. but once I landed on OpenBSD territory .. the new OS just ECLIPSED the rest ..

FreeBSD .. the other giant .. I simply never had to use it ..since PcBSD's last crash ..
I dont care how much time it might cost me to fully master the OS .. what's important *NOW* is that it pushed me -a total newbie- to go further and *deepen* (lol ! you may laugh at it now :-) ) my learning experience a far as OpenBSD/BSD/UNIX are concerned ..
as simple as this ..

" I concluded that all is well "
Oedipus .


ps . I challenge those advocating other *Nixes to do the following :
* successfully install slackintosh/yellowdog/crux/debian/fedora on ibook (dual usb) or imac .. without ening up with major issues like X issue+boot issue+speed+performance++ ..
* gain the same level of stability/security while using that alternative *Nix OS ..

Sorry .. this is not being stubborn .. it's being honest, to oneself ..
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Old 24th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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I'm so curious to know what Ocicat and other hackers think a better ' Soft-Transition-OS' is .. PcBSD ? DesktopBSD ? live ghostBSD/frenzy/trueBSD/freesbie/ ? other live OSes ? ubuntu and twins ?

ps. One more extra feature .. OpenBSD is ECOLOGICAL ..
recycling legacy hardware=more usability+less garbage
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Old 24th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
I'm so curious to know what Ocicat and other hackers think a better ' Soft-Transition-OS' is .. PcBSD ? DesktopBSD ? live ghostBSD/frenzy/trueBSD/freesbie/ ? other live OSes ? ubuntu and twins ?

ps. One more extra feature .. OpenBSD is ECOLOGICAL ..
recycling legacy hardware=more usability+less garbage
The title of this thread is "recommending OpenBSD to newbies". Discussing other operating systems hijacks the original discussion. If you want to take discussion in a different direction, start a new thread.
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Old 24th February 2012
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I think we were talking reasons why 'this' is better than 'that' ..
{meaning} is contextual , contrastive .. and dialogic .. unless I diapprove of x I wouldn't advocate z .. I put a few arguments waiting for someome to come and dispell them as myths ..
sometimes we are obliged to mention points that may seem to extend beyond the arch-theme .. yet those points are essential mythemes for the overall topic .. I apologize if I've been off-topic that often .. the thing is .. I like sharing ideas with those who've known/experienced more and better ..
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Old 24th February 2012
aleunix aleunix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jggimi View Post
@aleunix, a more accurate way to phrase that would be, "I would prefer better support for my hardware."
Partially true but even partially wrong.
Sure, i would like even my old hardware supported ... but i don't use closed driver (i use the standard VESA for my monitor).
Also i read the support for the Intel Sandy bridge remains back on the bsd world.
While i have no idea about the amd bulldozer or the amd fusion.
If an hardware isn't supported you can't use a system and if you can't use a system you can't add users and this means less diffusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
Amiiiiico ! Come state ? :-)

well , I see it differently .. I have successfully installed OpenBSD on dell/ibook/imac/acer/old xeon/hpcompaq/ .. so far I have no problems except an ibook's wi0 issue ..
Frustrato perché nonostante abbia un sistema vecchio, e siano passati anni da quando l'ho comprato, ancora ho problemi ad installare openbsd.

About the rest, you have made example of branded hardware, while i use assembled computers ...
The only shop on my city that give some information about linux compatibility, after its acquisition, don't give anymore these informations (or at least i don't see it on their site now).
The computer where i have problem was "certified" for linux, that means that even if i look for system that work for linux, don't automatically can work even for bsd.

Last edited by aleunix; 24th February 2012 at 01:28 PM.
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