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Old 30th May 2008
warriors warriors is offline
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Exclamation Installed 4.3 & No GUI

Hi,

I downloaded install43.iso(openbsd 4.3) and installed it into my Compaq Presario 7478. Everything went smooth and fast and no errors. After installation and upon first reboot, it asked me to login, but no GUI!...apparently I'm stuck in the terminal and there is no GUI. I installed all of the packages including media files except for the games. I haven't created a new user yet--I'm just testing out openbsd for the first time. I can login as root and surf through the directories and such...but when I login as root, there is no GUI which means I can't see the desktop. How can I fix this?
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Old 31st May 2008
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Welcome to OpenBSD!

OpenBSD's "GUI" is known by many names: X, X11, Xorg, Xenocara ... but what you need to know about Unix-like systems and their X environments is ... you usually have lots of choices. OpenBSD has about 40 different window managers available. Two of them are built in, the rest are add-on packages.

When you logged in as root for the very first time, it told you you have e-mail. But, since you missed the message or didn't know what to do, I'll tell you. At the # prompt, type "mail" and press Enter. You'll see mail message number 1. Type "1" and press Enter.

If that's too confusing, you can type "less /var/mail/root" and just read what's in your e-mail queue with the "less" command.

It will tell you about the man pages, and one of the best ones to read as a new user is afterboot(8). To read it, type "man afterboot' at the # prompt.

Another wonderful resource is the OpenBSD FAQ. FAQ 4 you probably used to install, but you missed FAQ 11, which is all about the "X Window System." (Hey, look, yet another name for the same thing!)
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Old 31st May 2008
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When I saw this threads title my first thought was

of course there is no gui !

The X Windows system needs to be told how to use the system and what you wish it to execute when started.

I assume you installed the x*43.tgz file sets and gave a yes to the do you intend to run X question.

SOP after install is to setup the local machine settings (passwords, usrs, network, software, etc).


If you haven't created a working xorg.conf file yet you will need to, it can be done manually and interactively via xorgconf at the command line. I would suggest using X.Org to figure things out on it's own (less headache),

Code:
X -configure
if the conf file doesn't work, people will need to know about your hardware configuration and the content X's log files.


I'm not familiar with the X related file sets but would expect the usual TWM being shipped out of the box.


You will need to tell the system when and how to start X, either via manually telling it to start or (as you probably want) to automatically start a graphical login program such as XDM, GDM, or KDM (X, Gnome, and KDE deskop login managers respectfully). XDM should come with xbase43.tgz or xerv43.tgz, the others based on kde/gnome installs.


Things such as gnome would be third party and not in the base file sets installed, dunno if they come on the CD-ROM (as I can't afford one, or I'd have one), They can always be added via pkg_add if you don't have them installed (your not very specific).



The FAQ has a great section on setting up X.


Once X is starting and the WM to run when the user logs in is setup, all should work fine.
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Old 31st May 2008
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Quote:
...I'm not familiar with the X related file sets but would expect the usual TWM being shipped out of the box....
Nope, not twm. There are two window managers built-in to the Xenocara build of X: fvwm(1), which is the default, and cwm(1), which can be configured.

Note to readers of this thread: The question has been asked many times of OpenBSD users, "what's your favorite window manager?" Don't ask or answer that question in this particular thread, since that would get many answers and would be off topic. Feel free to start a new thread if you must.

Warriors: if you have no clue what window manager to install, and want to get a feel for several popular window managers running on OpenBSD without having to install any of them, see the link in my signature.
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Old 31st May 2008
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This is OpenBSD, default WM still is FVWM.

Re X:
in most cases you don't need an xorg.conf, unless you are not using an US keyboard. Besides, keyboard recognition has been added to -current.

If all x*.tgz sets have been installed, all you need is to login and
startx
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Old 31st May 2008
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While lvlamb is correct, it's still a good idea to run X -configure and move the new configuration file to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, if anything it'll simplify making future changes. (I like keeping it there, and until recently, I owned monitors that required specifying Vert/Horiz values.. ).

Personally, GUI's are overrated.. and no offence to the OP, but they should definitely not be displayed by default.

Last edited by BSDfan666; 31st May 2008 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 31st May 2008
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I have started X via startx. I've setup a zorg.conf file and confirmed that it is in the correct depth and resolution. I then added the xorg.conf to /etc/X11/.

Now I'm trying to setup X to run automatically at bootup, but not quite sure on how to do that. I read the faqs area(FAQ 11) and it said that I need to edit /etc/rc.conf.local...but the thing is I don't know what lines/commands to include in the file(rc.conf.local)
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Old 31st May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriors View Post
Now I'm trying to setup X to run automatically at bootup, but not quite sure on how to do that.
As said above, you have choices.. XDM is there by default, GDM/KDM are available in the ports tree/packages, I still think it's a bad idea though..
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Old 31st May 2008
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OpenBSD's X comes with xdm(1). The X display manager.

To have it start on boot, you add one variable setting to /etc/rc.conf.local, which sets xdm_flags to null. Here's a command to do that without an editor:

# echo 'xdm_flags=""' >> /etc/rc.conf.local

startx looks for an .xinitrc file in the user's home directory, to start specific window managers and graphical applications. xdm uses .xsession files in like manner.
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Old 31st May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSDfan666 View Post
I still think it's a bad idea though...
To paraphrase Mike Lucas (mostly 'cause I can't remember the exact line, which was much much better):

It might be the equivalent of a dangerous stroll in Central Park late at night, but if you want to do it, OpenBSD gives you a flashlight and a map.
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Old 31st May 2008
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I have edit rc.conf.local file to include xdm_flags="" and xdm automatically starts upon first boot.

You think it's a bad idea to have xdm to automatically start at bootup? How come?
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Compaq Presario 7478
Trident Graphics Integrated in the ViaChipset
Integrated 64-bit hardware-accelerated 3D graphics
GN-WPKG RT2560F ral(4) Chipset
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56K ITU V.90 modem 3
64MB of RAM
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Old 31st May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriors View Post
You think it's a bad idea to have xdm to automatically start at bootup?
Security reasons. xdm/gdm, as userland applications, are basically being used to shuttle user credentials during authentication. Given that X has a long history of security flaws, using it as sparingly as possible is a good thing.
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Old 31st May 2008
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This is way off topic but I just want to mention that I am planning to use this system as a desktop system if possible. To be honest, the only programs that I really need is mozilla thunderbird, firefox, xchat, text editor, gnupg, truecrypt, and encfs. That's about it...and this is just a test machine to see how it all works out.
Quote:
Security reasons. xdm/gdm, as userland applications, are basically being used to shuttle user credentials during authentication. Given that X has a long history of security flaws, using it as sparingly as possible is a good thing.
I did remember reading something about X and having the driver enabled. According to /etc/sysctl.conf, the line starting with machdep.allowaperture= is currently set to 2 which means that the driver is enabled. But what if I disabled it, can I still use other display managers?

I've checked out your site jggimi...recently I've had experience working with gnome and xfce but not the others. Is there a secure/safe alternative display manager that you or anyone can recommend me other than xdm--since xdm has a long history of security flaws.
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Trident Graphics Integrated in the ViaChipset
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64MB of RAM
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Old 31st May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriors View Post
To be honest, the only programs that I really need is mozilla thunderbird, firefox, xchat, text editor, gnupg, truecrypt, and encfs.
I use Firefox, xchat/gnupg and thunderbird have ports.. truecrypt and encfs do not, I believe the latter uses FUSE which is not available on OpenBSD. (It also, sounds like a bad idea..)
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Old 31st May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriors View Post
But what if I disabled it, can I still use other display managers?
The xf86(4) driver is a fundamental requirement of X, not for any specific window manager or display manager. Turning off, or setting machdep.allowaperature to zero, will make X unable to run at all.

The rationale behind requiring xf86 is a fundamental design flaw of X, but to their defense, it was difficult to come up with a generalized solution which would work across multiple Unix platforms & hardware.
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Old 31st May 2008
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Think of it this way: X is the graphical infrastructure required to run a window manager, and the window manager is the toolset that lets you manipulate and manage what is on the screen: move and size windows, select applications, etc. Some window managers include lots of integrated add-on software and extend themselves into complete desktop environments.

If you come from MS Windows or Mac OS, you come from platforms with a single, proprietary window management environment. Some Linux distributions manage X in similar fashion, where you have one or perhaps a choice of two or even three window managers. BSDs can also be packaged like this. PC BSD is a FreeBSD-based packaging that is pre-configured with X for the casual desktop user.

OpenBSD isn't designed for the casual user. Actually, it's not designed for us users at all. It's designed by and for the developers, and we users are just lucky enough to go along for the ride and reap the benefits of their efforts. (Hint: see the Project Goals page, and note that users are only mentioned in regards to open access to the OS source code.)

X is set up the way it is, then, because it meets the needs of the 90 or so people who develop OpenBSD. The default window manager, fvwm, is the default because it has a compatible license and I'm told theo@ prefers it. And cwm was added about a year ago because bernd@ imported it and jasper@ prefers it. This latter isn't rumor: see the article in the OpenBSD Journal.

The 40 or so different window managers in the ports tree are there because other developers have favorites or interest in them, or, because ports were developed by end users, submitted, and accepted.

Last edited by jggimi; 31st May 2008 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 31st May 2008
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I don't use a display manager because you can enable X forwarding, which, IMHO, should be manged by ssh.
Windows mangers as GNOME and KDE now come with PolicyKit, also fuc*ing with security. Not speaking of sudo. Not speaking of auto-mapping.
Keeping a DM out of the way is one security setup less.

Now, startx being a shell script, there is no reason why it can't be called from/included in the login.

Most of us type startx (or startxfce4 which is a choice between 2 WMs really )

I guess we all like to see what happens on the console when we login.
I also like to call X apps from a console, standard output can be so instructive.

Bad habits maybe.

Now, if it is just for a desktop and browsing, projects as PC-BSD could be better choices (even some minimalist Linux mini-CDs: no pun intended, no shame, just use the right tool for the right job).

If the goal is learning, spend some time with OpenBSD.

Oh! Yeah! I *always* have a xorg.conf file, as autoconfigure cannot guess if my monitors should be configured as dual, clone or xinerama.
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Old 2nd June 2008
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Just perusing this thread I noticed you are using 64 MB RAM... if you are going to run a desktop system with the applications you mentioned above, I'd recommend bumping up your RAM.


To make this a more tangible thing to notice, run top once your GUI is up with the typical number of apps you would run concurrently... if you are using all of your RAM and eating into swap, your system could show some serious performance degradation.
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Old 2nd June 2008
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Good catch, danno!

Now that you've brought that to our attention, it is also clear that the other components (CPU, Video) are also low powered, in balance with that amount of memory.

Warriors will have trouble with the heavier window managers (e.g.: KDE / Gnome / XFCE) and may still have trouble with the lighter ones.
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Old 2nd June 2008
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So true, jggimi.
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