DaemonForums  

Go Back   DaemonForums > Other Operating Systems > Other BSD and UNIX/UNIX-like

Other BSD and UNIX/UNIX-like Any other flavour of BSD or UNIX that does not have a section of its own.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   (View Single Post)  
Old 17th July 2012
barti barti is offline
Shell Scout
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 122
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default random OS comparisons

What amazes me is how much freebsd is an unknown beast.


So much unknown and such a beast.


Full and complete operating system, far better then Linux, and many people
never heard of it.
Reply With Quote
  #2   (View Single Post)  
Old 18th July 2012
barti barti is offline
Shell Scout
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 122
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
"If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened."

Linus Torvalds


http://serverfault.com/questions/363...pular-than-bsd
Reply With Quote
  #3   (View Single Post)  
Old 18th July 2012
barti barti is offline
Shell Scout
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 122
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
It's about the feeling of ownership. Linux is free and open in every way. Linux belongs to everyone. Just using Linux makes one feel like part of the community. BSD, despite its license, is "owned" by small groups of control freaks with limited visions. They don't really want you to be a part of their group because you are inferior and you might mess up their code.


From what I read on the net, the new versions of the Linux kernel is indeed a mess.
Reply With Quote
  #4   (View Single Post)  
Old 18th July 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
bsdstudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DaemonLand
Posts: 834
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

lol , Mr Barti's waging an OS war .. how funny it turns as we -newbies- start the flame .. hehe .. well, true hackers know which is which .. why .. how .. so they approach issues like these with care or with zen silence ..
barti , I've always loved Linux for specific purposes :
Linux4astro --> astronomy
Poseidon Linux (based on PcLinuxOS) ---> oceanography
wattOS ---> youtube !!!! . old machines ..
Backtrack ---> (sadly now based on ubuntu) sec/
ZenEdu --> education
plamo/doudou/eduknoppix etc ---> children
plus numerous localized Gnu-Linuxes ... plus many other Xfuncion or Xpurpose Gnu-Linuxes
a need .. a passion .. a legacy .. a course of events .. digital karma :-)
Reply With Quote
  #5   (View Single Post)  
Old 18th July 2012
ocicat ocicat is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,876
Thanked 190 Times in 160 Posts
Default

This thread has been split from its parent:

http://www.daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=7296

...as conversation was moving away from discussing OpenBSD window managers & more towards comparisons to Linux.

barti, I suspect you are attempting to understand the different culture found in the *BSD world as opposed to what you saw in the Linux world, & you are trying to put all the inconsistencies together. You would be doing yourself a greater favor if you would try to organize your thoughts more carefully into a more discernible narrative before posting.

It would also help your readers try to understand what is most fundamentally important to you at this time.

Last edited by ocicat; 18th July 2012 at 09:36 PM. Reason: clarity
Reply With Quote
  #6   (View Single Post)  
Old 24th July 2012
angryfirelord angryfirelord is offline
Port Guard
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 20
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barti View Post
True, but if Hurd or Minix had matured, that would've been the case as well. The whole point of Linus releasing Linux was to have a Unix-like system on the 386. Funny thing though is that today, Hurd isn't vaporware anymore and has incorporated a lot of drivers from the 2.6.32 Linux kernel. In fact, there was a statement last year from Debian about creating a Hurd release for Debian Wheezy. Minix in addition had a lot of utilities replaced with applications from NetBSD.
Reply With Quote
  #7   (View Single Post)  
Old 24th July 2012
vermaden's Avatar
vermaden vermaden is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: pl_PL.lodz
Posts: 1,052
Thanked 118 Times in 93 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by angryfirelord View Post
Hurd isn't vaporware anymore and has incorporated a lot of drivers from the 2.6.32 Linux kernel. In fact, there was a statement last year from Debian about creating a Hurd release for Debian Wheezy. Minix in addition had a lot of utilities replaced with applications from NetBSD.
Thats probably because both Hurd and Linux are GPL and both Minix and NetBSD use BSD license
__________________
religions, worst damnation of mankind
"If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds

Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”.
vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd
Reply With Quote
  #8   (View Single Post)  
Old 22nd August 2012
Carpetsmoker's Avatar
Carpetsmoker Carpetsmoker is offline
Real Name: Martin
Old man from scene 24
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Posts: 2,066
Thanked 198 Times in 156 Posts
Default

The HURD is just a big pile of fail. Even more than most other GNU projects.

Minix 3 actually looks quite nice. Unlike earlier Minix versions, it's not just a research system anymore but aimed to be a "real" desktop/server OS.
I'd like to explore it someday, but these days my computer playtime is pretty limited ...

Here's a video of Andrew Tanenbaum explaining Minix 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx3KuE7UjGA
__________________
UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.
Reply With Quote
  #9   (View Single Post)  
Old 3rd June 2013
punk0x29a punk0x29a is offline
Port Guard
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I wonder...

What will happen to Plan 9 from Outer Spa... Bell Labs, I mean...

The future operating systems, such as this, will affect us - in the future, for this is where You and I are going to spend the rest of our lives...

God help us - in the future...


And now, for sumtin' serious... I've read that Plan9 wasn't deployed world-wide, because it was ahead of it's times for like 30-40 years or so... What do You think about it?
Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013
thirdm thirdm is offline
Package Pilot
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 198
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
I wonder...
And now, for sumtin' serious... I've read that Plan9 wasn't deployed world-wide, because it was ahead of it's times for like 30-40 years or so... What do You think about it?
I'd try switching to it if...
1. I was reasonably sure how to install it and that it would support my hardware.
2. I had a mouse that makes acme's chording comfortable
3. I knew for sure it ran firefox (or a suitable replacement), emacs (I'd need time to ween myself off emacs and onto acme), an X server (can it?), an RDP client, and various other software (it was also unclear to me whether it had any kind of C++ compiler beyond cfront, whether it ran any kind of Scheme compiler supporting more than R4RS or even scsh, whether it had sbcl or any other implementation of CL).

My impression was that the problem with plan 9 was that it needs a group of middling hackers outside the core group to do all the porting or new creation of programs that its creators turn their nose at (web browsing is the worst for keeping out new clean OS designs with all the crap we've come to need to use common sites and how much work that takes to support). Unless that happens it's like Oberon -- a prototype showing the way things maybe ought to be but lacking lots of stuff many of us are used to having. You can tell me all this other stuff is just sugar, fat, and salt, but probably that won't be enough to motivate me to do all my computing plan 9's way. If using OpenBSD meant I couldn't run anything beyond their base, I wouldn't use it either, as much as I like what they're doing.

Acme's pretty cool, though. Just need a better mouse.

Damn it, you're going to make me go on another plan9port or kick soon.
Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013
roddierod's Avatar
roddierod roddierod is offline
Real Name: Rod Person
VPN Cryptographer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 372
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I tried plan 9 about a year or two ago. Performance wise I loved it, but the lack of ported software kept me from keeping the installation for more that 3 or 4 days.

But this post makes me want to try it again and maybe look into porting stuff to it.
__________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -Philip K. Dick
Reply With Quote
Old 4th June 2013
punk0x29a punk0x29a is offline
Port Guard
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Well... For me plan9 was, so far, only a fun toy under virtual machine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...9_applications

There's links! We're saved! ;-)

Wow... Imagine SteelBankCL on Plan9 on PrecisionBook 9000... Can You guys think of anything more hackerish?
Rollerblades grow themselves on your feets, young Jolie pops up on "faces" announcer... Halcyon on and on...

Lack of cpp compiler keeps me away from it. And, on the other hand, rio conception is something I really, really dont like - mouse driven WM, on which everything must be typed on keyboard... Kinda like a new ubuntu gui

Last edited by punk0x29a; 4th June 2013 at 01:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2013
muflon muflon is offline
Real Name: Marcin
Port Guard
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Poland
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
I've read that Plan9 wasn't deployed world-wide, because it was ahead of it's times for like 30-40 years or so... What do You think about it?
It was primary a Research OS from Bell Labs.
System was developed in times where AT&T facilities were at 'split' mode. Bell Labs was reformed, and renamed to Lucent Technologies. The Tenth Edition Unix, was the last one.

And If I may say, Research versions were developed mainly to code purity, and mostly by a small amount of people.

If you take a UNIX system family tree, You see that only the Sixth [1975] and Seventh Edition [1978] made an 'impulse' for the creation of BSD and for USG-USDL - System III and V projects. And these distributions were developed in large - mostly University research centres around the US, they improved not only a kernel [mostly to port Unix for different architectures], but mainly developed the User-land space, with lots of useful programs. Like finger which first appeared in 2 BSD, and by which Robert T. Morris, using gap in finger buffer, succeed to spread his Worm, around the Net.

The Unix V8 code was merged with USDL System V Release 2, but not with 4.2 and 2.9 BSD's.

And the Ninth Edition was the last one that spread own code to distributions mainly to BSD. The Tenth Edition was the last one, that ENDED original system development, and was not implemented to any fame distribution.

The Unix successor Plan 9 came up in times, were the large communities where focused on free software development, mainly using predecessors ideas from Unix distribution like System V and BSD.

And as we know It today system without a community [which produce daily use standards] is mostly dead system.

Greetings.
Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2013
muflon muflon is offline
Real Name: Marcin
Port Guard
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Poland
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

One more word about finger program.
I must say, that I am impressed. By accuracy of OpenBSD man pages.

In FreeBSD, NetBSD, know versions of Linux man pages there is note that, The finger command Appeared in 3.0BSD, only in OpenBSD manual states, The finger command Appeared in 2BSD.
Reply With Quote
Old 26th November 2013
muflon muflon is offline
Real Name: Marcin
Port Guard
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Poland
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Every program for the original PDP-7 Unix system was written in assembly language, and bare assembly language it was - for example, there were no macros.
Moreover, there was no loader or link-editor, so every program had to be complete in itself.

The first interesting language, as is mentioned by Dennis Ritchie, was a version of McClure's TMG that McIlroy implemented to PDP. [R. M. McClure, 'TMG--A Syntax-Directed Compiler,' Proc 20th ACM National Conf. 1968, pp. 262-74]

After TMG became available, Thomson decided that Unix could not pretend to offer a real computing service without Fortran, so he sat down to write a Fortran in TMG.

Instead, after a week of hard work, Thompson produced a definition of and a compiler for the new language. B language. There is a good article about it, that was written by S. C. Johnson and B. W. Kernighan, 'The Programming Language B,' Comp. Sci. Tech. Rep. #8, Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ 1973.

B was much influenced by the BCPL language [ M. Richards, 'BCPL: A Tool for Compiler Writing and System Programming,' Proc. AFIPS SJCC 34 1969, pp. 557-66 ], other influences were Thompson's taste for 'spartan syntax', and the very small space into which the compiler had to fit.

The compiler produced simple interpretive code; although it and the programs it produced were rather slow, it made life much more pleasant.

The next step was made in 1971 when work began on what was to become the C language.
The story of the language developments from BCPL through B to C is told in D.M. Ritchie, S.C. Johnson, and M. E. Lesk, 'The C Programming Language,', Bell Sys. Tech. J., 57 No. 6 (July-August 1978), pp. 1991-2019

So I don't know is there any need to understand the root's of today's OS.
But we could talk. Anyway.
Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2013
roddierod's Avatar
roddierod roddierod is offline
Real Name: Rod Person
VPN Cryptographer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 372
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I don't know if there is a "need"...but I for one love this historical stuff, especially when the person posting was working in that time frame. When I was in college 20+ years ago and was studying C nowhere, that I recall, was B ever mentioned. It was only through *BSD forums that I learned this a few years ago.

Now you hit me with TMG! I'm definitely going to look for these books!

Thank you!
__________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -Philip K. Dick
Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2013
muflon muflon is offline
Real Name: Marcin
Port Guard
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Poland
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roddierod View Post
I don't know if there is a "need"...but I for one love this historical stuff, especially when the person posting was working in that time frame. When I was in college 20+ years ago and was studying C nowhere, that I recall, was B ever mentioned. It was only through *BSD forums that I learned this a few years ago.

Now you hit me with TMG! I'm definitely going to look for these books!

Thank you!
I recommend to You an articles from Bell System Technical Journal, v57: i6 July-August 1978; they all can be download on these site.

Especially the text that was firstly published in 1974 in Communications of the ACM, and then reprinted with upgrades in BSTJ 1978, The UNIX Time-sharing System, by Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie.

Also Greg Lehey, on his website published classic Lions book, Commentary on Unix 6'th Edition with Source Code. [the source code of V 6 Unix is on different site.

Salute.
Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2013
roddierod's Avatar
roddierod roddierod is offline
Real Name: Rod Person
VPN Cryptographer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 372
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Thank You!
__________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -Philip K. Dick
Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2013
muflon muflon is offline
Real Name: Marcin
Port Guard
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Poland
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I am planning to run an history OS museum with some of my friends in Poland.
-Ultrix, on VAX
-AIX, on RS/6000 43P-150 version.

The shell accounts will be included for daemonforum users
Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2013
Holubecois Holubecois is offline
New User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muflon View Post
I am planning to run an history OS museum with some of my friends in Poland.
-Ultrix, on VAX
-AIX, on RS/6000 43P-150 version.

The shell accounts will be included for daemonforum users
Able to do one for VMS too?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RSA keys not as random as they should be J65nko News 1 16th February 2012 10:09 PM
Debugging random restarts backrow OpenBSD General 5 21st March 2011 04:58 AM
PHP blunders with random numbers J65nko News 0 30th March 2010 06:25 PM
OpenBSD Coming soon: pkg_add using full version comparisons to avoid spurious downgrades J65nko News 0 10th January 2010 04:51 PM
Generating random passwords on FreeBSD erno Guides 3 8th May 2008 08:44 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content copyright © 2007-2010, the authors
Daemon image copyright ©1988, Marshall Kirk McKusick