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Old 21st June 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirbo
A bit over the top...

If you need to administrate so badly that you change posts arbitrarily (arguably), maybe you should get a second hobby?

Or be less of a dick?
Me, Carpetsmoker or who, Neo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirbo
Then again, so is playing with forum databases. I would have reset vermaden's password instead of banning him, and then sent him a PM here asking about the PMs on UNIX forums that he didn't respond to (that I would not actually send.)
I have lost in half of that part, what do you meat with all that PMs?
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Old 21st June 2008
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Erm, why were you banned? Was it without warning?
Old 21st June 2008
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Seems rather odd to me. This guy obviously has an ego. I run a board myself and I welcome links each way unless they are directly competitive. Surely theirs isn't considering the subject matter. I guess he feels threatened or is paranoid about something.

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Old 21st June 2008
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Well, from what I understand, Neo also welcomes links to other forums, but there seems to be some old beef between Unix.com and BSDForums.org, from what Neo told me Admin and the first moderators at BSDForums were Unix.com members first, and then started BSDForums.
Also, it seems that Admin has always removed links to Unix.com from BSDForums...
And since DaemonForums is a continuation of BSDForums....

I *think* I have convinced Neo that we are NOT BSDForums and that these forums are run by different people, and that no links will ever be removed, but I'm not sure about that since my account is now moderated (admin/mods have to manually accept my posts) and I suspect a link to DaemonForums was recently removed (Day ago, need to confirm that).
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Old 21st June 2008
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Even so, it seems silly. One would think, unless there is advertising money involved, that cross links would be welcomed.

Oh well, perhaps it's as Carpetsmoker suspects, that there's some bad history between the old Admin and this fellow Neo, and that's the root of all this. Vermaden, I'm assuming you were banned because of some connection with Daemonforums? Or did your avatar simply make people feel they had to use the bathroom, so they decided it was too annoying?

Actually, lately your avatar makes me think of the animated Madagascar, where Mr. Baron Cohen, as Ali G, is playing the chief of the lemurs, singing, "I like to move it, move it."
Old 21st June 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
Erm, why were you banned? Was it without warning?
Long story mate.

1. I got PM from Neo that on mine thread on unix.com that I nobody posted for about 2 years I linked to bsdforums.org and on mirror thread on bsdforums.org I did not linked to unix.com. He also cried about my site, that I have links to all major UNIX resources but not to unix.com and that was his warning with 10 points of something, dunno, maybe 10 xp points and I will level up in short time ...

2. I replied that there was no sense in linking to unix.com thread since NO ONE post any posts there, and there was a reason to link to bsdfoforums.org because we had some discussion there I also offered this thread if he feels sad about that. I also said that I will add a unix.com link to my site because I am currently working on new version of it.

3. He replied with info that unix.com links are always deleted from bsdforums.org with PM message that was quoted here on the first post.

4. I started this thread with quoted PM.

5. I got PM from Neo that posting someone's PM is not kind because they are "private".

6. I replied to him, said sorry, I did not knew that it was so secret for him (was it?). I also checked my site if I really missed unix.com link and Neo just did not find unix.com link on my site, so I also added info to my PM to Neo, that my site contains link to unix.com on *. vermaden > whois: > unix.com place.

7. Next day I got banned with no reason.

8. Several days later Neo added info to my ban that I was banned because of posting PM's to public (it took whole 2 days to add that info).

Rest is described by Carpetsmoker.
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Old 21st June 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
Oh well, perhaps it's as Carpetsmoker suspects, that there's some bad history between the old Admin and this fellow Neo, and that's the root of all this. Vermaden, I'm assuming you were banned because of some connection with Daemonforums?
Dunno mate, but I do not longer consider Neo as a responsible man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
Or did your avatar simply make people feel they had to use the bathroom, so they decided it was too annoying?

Actually, lately your avatar makes me think of the animated Madagascar, where Mr. Baron Cohen, as Ali G, is playing the chief of the lemurs, singing, "I like to move it, move it."
Heh

When I was selecting my avatar on bsdforums for the first time I checked all 1300+ images, but when I saw my current one I could not resist to use it

It was just ... different you know, but I know it makes you feel tired
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Old 21st June 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windependence View Post
This guy obviously has an ego. I run a board myself and I welcome links each way unless they are directly competitive.
Actually, the answer is most likely found in the latter part of the above quoted sentence. I suspect it is very easy to fall into turf battles especially when competing for the same content & clientèle. I also suspect that this kind of territorial behaviour is even more pronounced when new competition appears on the scene.

As an example, look at dogs. They bark loudest & most viciously at new dogs until the pecking order has been clearly re-established.

That, & they all calm down after smelling each other's butts.

Last edited by ocicat; 21st June 2008 at 10:27 PM.
Old 21st June 2008
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I am not going to smell anyone's butt.

Quote:
Or did your avatar simply make people feel they had to use the bathroom, so they decided it was too annoying?
Luckily you can turn animated images off ... Otherwise Vermaden would have been banned here a long time ago
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Old 22nd June 2008
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Ok, that was funny. I like his image, it always tickles me.
Probably shouldn't have posted the PM, but it does seem the fellow is overly sensitive. Carpetsmoker, I think Ocicat was speaking figuratively in this case.
Maybe in your correspondence with the gentleman, you can point out that vermaden is probably responsible for several people joining his forum. (If vermaden cares, which he may not.)
Old 22nd June 2008
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Quote:
was his warning with 10 points of something, dunno, maybe 10 xp points and I will level up in short time ...
Yes, I would suggest using the points for the "Bloody mess" trait and "heavy weapons" skill, and then use your imagination, combined with a few death animations from a post-nuclear role playing game.

Ehm, right ... He was talking about "Profile infractions", admins and mods can give a user infractions with the red/yellow card above each user's post, at X points a user can be banned for X days or whatever...

I have 5 points, reason: "Posting with the purpose of promoting own site.", which is nonsense, I just provide a valid/useful answer and posting a link to the original author/source :-/ ... He whines to us that we remove links to unix.com (Which is not true) and at the same time he removes links to Daemonforums.org...

But why am I worrying and spending time on this...?

Quote:
Carpetsmoker, I think Ocicat was speaking figuratively in this case.
Really?

Quote:
Probably shouldn't have posted the PM, but it does seem the fellow is overly sensitive.
In Dutch we say someone has "long toes" when he/she is easily offended.
I would say this person's toes reach all the way from Constantinople to Istanbul...
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Old 22nd June 2008
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I think the main difference between the two sites, other than the obvious subjectmatter difference, is that unix.com is out to make a buck, and we're out to be a community.

Quote:
UNIX Forum Content Copyright ©1993-2008 SilkRoad Asia All Rights Reserved -Ad Management by RedTyger
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
The ad management and SEO optimization gives that away. What's sad is that this greediness of content isolation for the purposes of SEO-driven ad revenue is blot on the UNIX community as a whole. It's a self-serving selfish behavior. As a result I wouldn't contribute one word of content to them.

So having users potentially come here and post content that might otherwise be posted on their site and generate more traffic via search engines (and thus potentially spur more ad revenue and thus make them more money) is, to me, the direct reason they are acting the way they are... any other excuse they give is, IMHO, simply smokescreen.

ps- do you still want to recommend them and set up a link for them from here?
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Last edited by ai-danno; 22nd June 2008 at 04:31 AM.
Old 22nd June 2008
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As usual, I think ai-danno nailed it. (Of course, we cacti users get good at that.)

When this thread started. I had thought that there were issues between unix.com and the old bsdforums admin, and that this was simply a matter of ironing that out. However, as the thread's progressed, I imagine that the bad blood between them stemmed from the ad driven content thing, which is a shame. I doubt that either made a lot of money on their sites.

So, it seems he would like references to his forum, which is reasonable. He has rules about posting links which *might* have originally been there to help prevent spam. However, a link to a forum like this shouldn't be an issue, unless he really feels that it's taking money from him. Perhaps the logic is, people go there, they start going there less than here, fewer people see the ads. <shrug>.

Anyway, I think Carpetsmoker also summed it up well, why are we wasting time about this. I would like to think that if this forum (daemonforums) started taking advertising, they wouldn't object to us posting links to other forums that might also <gasp> have ads.

As Carpetsmoker said, I guess he has long toes--interesting idiom, I guess if your toes are long, they're easy to step on.

What goes around tends to come around, so if he's creating bad karma, on his head be it. As Marcus Aurelius wrote, If he did wrong, the harm is with him, but perhaps he didn't. In other words, what Carpetsmoker says. I think that Vermaden, in the first post, actually tried to help the fellow, recommending the forum. Now he's been banned from there.

Well, Vermaden, going back to Marcus Aurelius again, he also wrote words to the effect of, If you do a good deed, isn't that reward enough? Why hope for gratitude as well? As near as I can see, you made the recommendation for the forum--frankly, I'm a bit leery of forums that are so nervous of whatever they're nervous about that they start giving out "you've been naughty" points for linking to other technical forums.

CentOS has lots of ads, and I've never been criticized for linking to anything else.
Ubuntu is a commercial entity, and though I don't see ads on their forum pages, I believe their code of conduct says just don't overdo it--I've linked to my pages and other forums countless times, and have never been asked not to by the mods.

Fedora has no ads, and I'm not sure of their policy, but again, I've never been criticized for linking to anything there. So, I guess it's a bit non-standard.

As usual, I've gone on too long, but I'm a bit irked, perhaps because I feel I was fooled--I thought that this fellow simply thought we were removing links to his site, but it turns out he doesn't want links to other sites. Silly person.
Old 22nd June 2008
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Thanks Scottro!

It's really sad that those as petty as the unix.com guys are swirling around in or around our BSD community realm... I had always hoped that this community somehow was a bit more mature (and for the most part it is)... but sadly, I suppose that every village has it's (greedy) idiot.
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Old 22nd June 2008
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There's no problem posting to other sites/forums, see this thread:
http://www.unix.com/whats-your-mind/...rticipate.html

In particular Vermaden's post, BSDForums was removed, but PC-BSD and BSDNexus were not.
And in mtx's post BSDForums was also removed, I think mtx edited it and put DaemonForums there a few days ago, which was also removed.

In short, I'm not so sure the advertisement thing is the problem, I think the problem is that this Neo is just a prick...
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Old 22nd June 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ai-danno View Post
...unix.com is out to make a buck, and we're out to be a community.
While I understand your intent, I don't agree that having advertisements is inherently evil. Ultimately, sites have to pay for hosting (even if it's just a server in the garage...), & advertisements can help defray those costs. If energy prices continue to stay high, I suspect we will see a number of unencumbered sites adopt similar advertising practices -- especially if they intend to stay online ad infinitum. All we can hope for is that ad placements are not so annoying or distracting that finding the real content becomes a chore.

It is important to separate this issue from any behaviour seen by Admin's of related sites. While I don't pretend to understand the motivations of the person in question, neither do I feel compelled to pay for his psychotherapy bills. The world is big enough that he can go his way, & I can go mine.
Old 22nd June 2008
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Also note that you only see advertisements when you are not logged in, once you register an account and log in you don't see any advertisement ... similar to linuxquestions.org
I think this is a nice compromise ... As ocicat already pointed out, hosting needs to be paid.

But I, for one, am not a particular big fan of advertisement, there's such a thing as banned blindness (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/banner-blindness.html) and there is this other study which shows that a small number of users are responsible for an overwhelming majority of advertisement clicks (Can't find the research right now).

So internet advertisement doesn't really work (Well, no advertisement really does, but this is a different story).

In addition, I think there are better/more creative ways to covert (part of) the hosting costs...
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Old 22nd June 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
Yes, I would suggest using the points for the "Bloody mess" trait and "heavy weapons" skill, and then use your imagination, combined with a few death animations from a post-nuclear role playing game.
I am thinking about taking perk "Slayer" currently ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
What goes around tends to come around, so if he's creating bad karma, on his head be it. As Marcus Aurelius wrote, If he did wrong, the harm is with him, but perhaps he didn't. In other words, what Carpetsmoker says. I think that Vermaden, in the first post, actually tried to help the fellow, recommending the forum. Now he's been banned from there.

Well, Vermaden, going back to Marcus Aurelius again, he also wrote words to the effect of, If you do a good deed, isn't that reward enough? Why hope for gratitude as well? As near as I can see, you made the recommendation for the forum--frankly, I'm a bit leery of forums that are so nervous of whatever they're nervous about that they start giving out "you've been naughty" points for linking to other technical forums.
I have done what I feel was best, but I am not going to remove/edit this thread after the case ended like that.

I still do not have anything bad if it goes to unix.com users, they propably do not even know anything about the case, I just do not respect their admin (neo) anymore.

What is the most funny part of that story?

unix.com rules does not say anything about posting PM's:
SIMPLE RULES OF THE UNIX FORUMS

It also does not mention anything about posting/removing links to anything.

What is not denied, it is allowed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
I have 5 points, reason: "Posting with the purpose of promoting own site.", which is nonsense, I just provide a valid/useful answer and posting a link to the original author/source :-/ ... He whines to us that we remove links to unix.com (Which is not true) and at the same time he removes links to Daemonforums.org...

In Dutch we say someone has "long toes" when he/she is easily offended.
I would say this person's toes reach all the way from Constantinople to Istanbul...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
In short, I'm not so sure the advertisement thing is the problem, I think the problem is that this Neo is just a prick...
Yes, I wanted to be nice at the beginning, but now I just think that Neo is an asshole.
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Old 22nd June 2008
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And now all my private messages have been cleared at unix.com
What, is he afraid I'm going to post them here or something?
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Old 22nd June 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
And now all my private messages have been cleared at unix.com
What, is he afraid I'm going to post them here or something?
You should have smelled his butt...

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