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You're very ignorant of how different each BSD project is, the major 3 BSD's OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreeBSD have been around for over a decade.
Each of them have worked on their systems separately, they do not share the same kernel or user-land.. they've diverged over the years.. dramatically. It is wrong to call them distributions of BSD, because they aren't just distributing an unmodified version of 386BSD or 4.4BSD-lite.. they've each made unique changes to the code based on their independent views and philosophies. In the Linux world, distributions are simply the same kernel.org kernel and a few things listed on gnu.org.. customizations typically include fancy initializations scripts and silly branding. OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreeBSD are separate entities.. each of them may have started out as 386BSD/4.4BSD-lite.. but today they're 3 entirely different operating systems. DragonFlyBSD is also a separate project, they may not have been around as long as the other 3.. but they're maintaining and developing their kernel and user-land independently. MirOS/BSD is a fork of OpenBSD 3.1, comparatively I know little about it.. but it isn't a carbon copy of OpenBSD anymore, 7 years of being a separate project. FreeBSD has always been a project trying to make life easier for people running in a world full of i386 boxes.. some people have attempted to make life easier by providing novice users with a pre-configured environment and OS X inspired package management system, examples being PC-BSD and DesktopBSD. A lot of Desktop oriented BSD projects are around as of recently.. that they're not full fledged derivatives of BSD, most of them don't claim to be.. some even try to emphasize the fact that they use an entirely unmodified kernel. It might be a way to publicize various BSD derivatives, I know for example one of this forums members, jggimi, creates his own OpenBSD based LiveCD images, no doubt his overall goals include making it easier for grandma to try out OpenBSD in a somewhat user friendly manner. If you don't like the pretty boxed versions meant to lure people who like boxes.. go to the source and get the real deal. Whining helps nobody, take the time to research the differences between each project. Take care. Last edited by BSDfan666; 31st May 2009 at 02:13 PM. |
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Harisman,
> I think that the BSD community tries to mimic Linux at its bads. I don't believe that to be true. If anything the BSD's try to adopt whats good in Linux. (For example FreeBSD is in a healthy competition with Linux in the performance area...check out the fbsd dev blogs) > Currently there are these BSD distributions and counting...these projects should be merged somehow to provide a magnificent BSD operating system...trying to re-invent the wheel with different approaches, waisting development time and resources... Sorry but that sounds a bit like FUD. Besides, it's worth keeping in mind that the BSD's are essentially volunteer driver projects, nobody can prevent any person (or group) from starting a new distro. [/offtopic]Thought for the day: Have we become a rant forum? |
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BSD: flavor
Linux:distro My classification of such. Anyway, each BSD is separate but can work with parts from the other without greatly modifying the system. This isn't so with the Linux distributions. RPM, deb, source, emerge, etc packaging systems have to be modified for another distribution and then it is not guaranteed to work. The major distributions of Linux do not have the fine grained control of the major flavors of BSD. BSD: cd /usr/<port source>/<directory>/<subdirectory> make config make install clean. Linux: Download package and install. Want it custom made? Download, extract, edit, test, config, install, clean. PC & Desktop are based upon Free. So are a lot of other BSD based projects. Diversity within the Linux community is based upon the function the developer wants and the audience the developer is targeting. There is nothing stopping the OP from building boxes and installing his own version of a BSD flavor on them and then distributing it. Be sure to include: Full source of all packages. Build instructions. Howto's for extra functionality. Handbook for base flavor plus handbook for modified flavor. Links to patches, security. Customer support. Product warranty. List of compatible hardware. Continua com outras problemas e mais..... A good thing about the Open Source community- both Linux and BSD- is that you do get support with any project you build that is within reason. |
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There are four separate BSD operating systems each one with the different very limited set of objectives. For instance DragonFly is trying to achieve kernel support for cluster computing full stop. Nothing else. It supports only i386. OpenBSD is security appliance and network tool. Everything else is extra stuff. They absolutely have nothing in common except that both can be used as desktop operating system. There are lot more distributions but fortunately not in the Linux sense of that word (couple idiots are trying to put set of desktop packages they like). Distribution is customized installation of an Operating System. In Linux world it is a bit more because Linux is just a kernel. So the distribution is also a choice of userland tools. There were in total over 40 distros based on FreeBSD. Almost 20 based on OpenBSD and at least 3-4 based on NetBSD. Most of them are dead. Active based on FreeBSD 1.m0n0wall 2.FreeNAS 3.pfSense 4.AskoziaPBX 5.NanoBSD 6.TrustedBSD 7.PC-BSD 8. MidnightBSD Dead based on FreeBSD-u 1.BSDBox 2.BSDeviant 3.BSDLive 4.Bzerk CD 5.ClosedBSD 6.Damn Small BSD 7.Debian/kFreeBSD 8.DesktopBSD 9.EclipseBSD 10.Gentoo/FreeBSD 11.GingBSD 12.GuLIC-BSD 13.HamFreeSBIE 14.FenestrOS BSD 15.FreeBSDLive 16.FreeBSD LiveCD 17.FreeSBIE 18.Frenzy 19.NetBoz 20.miniBSD 21.PicoBSD 22.RelaxBSD 23.RoFreeSBIE 24.Snarl 25.TheWall 26.ThinBSD 27.Triance OS 28.TrueBSD 29. WarBSD 30.WiBSD 31.WiFiBSD 32.XORP Active based on OpenBSD 1.ComixWall 2.flashdist 3.MirBSD 4. BowlFish 5.LiveCD made by jggimi's for Desktop demonstration 6.BSDanywhere 7.MarBSD Dead based on OpenBSD-u 1.Anonym.OS 2.CD Bootable OpenBSD firewall 3.CompactBSD 4.ekkoBSD 5.EmBSD 6.Flashboot 7.Fugulta 8.MicroBSD 9.OliveBSD 10.OpenBSD Live-CD Firewall 11.PsygNAT 12.SONaFR 13.Quetzal Each of active distros based on FreeBSD like m0n0wall, pFsense, FreeNAS, PC-BSD or AskoziaPBX is trying to solve specific problem. m0n0wall is FreeBSD firewall for embedded devices. pFsense is FreeBSD firewall for regular PC, FreeNAS is network based storage, PC-BSD is BSD for incompetent Desktop users, and AskoziaPBX is Asterix server. Quote:
Last edited by Oko; 1st June 2009 at 07:17 AM. |
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The reason that the BSDs have not joined forces to become a super-terrific-happy OS is that it is simply far too difficult to do so.
Claim 1: The overall central goal of each group of developers is different, and many developers have ideologies which would conflict with each other if they needed to work together (an obvious yet crucial example would be whether or not to include binary blobs in the source tree). Progress in this environment would be extremely frustrating to developers when such simplistic decisions cannot be made. Claim 2: This has been stated previously, but I'll state it again; each BSD has diverged significantly from the common starting point (386BSD and 4.4BSD-lite) and thus merging the systems together from their current states would be impossible without relinquishing some functionality, reliability, speed, portability, or security. Each BSD project focuses on a specific, limited set of desired goals, and each project excels at its chosen goals. One could attempt to write a BSD-based OS which possesses all of the merits of the current systems, but that is no easy task. Look at the most common desktop OSes; many of them try to succeed at perfection (or at least that is what they would have their users believe), and they can never quite get all of it right. This query is very similar to discussions I've heard on game emulation forums: why can there not be an emulator which is speedy, accurate, and lightweight on resources all at once? Because writing the perfect emulator is a relatively impossible feat. It is the same answer for an operating system; none can be perfect for everything, but they can be darn good for a few tasks. They do not reinvent each others' wheels; they craft entirely different ones.
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"Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else." - /usr/games/fortune |
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The FreeBSD & NetBSD projects began with an unencumbered source base which had been vetted by real world usage & customized it to their own liking. The various projects have been around long enough now that the divergence is very real -- one cannot expect to take major subsystems from one project & splice into another without encurring a significant amount of work. Likewise given that the projects have developed their own forms of funding (self-sustainment) & developed their own cultures, there isn't much motivation to merge. Even looking at OpenBSD's PF firewall which has been ported to both FreeBSD & NetBSD, the versions used by Free- & Net- are a few versions older than what can be found on OpenBSD. What this implies is that porting isn't that trivial or no one is motivated enough to change the status quo. The truth probably lies somewhere between. Usually when people argue for unification, they contrast the number of drivers available in the *BSD world to that of Linux. Again, two core issues are at play:
Outside of technical differences, the cultural differences extend past different funding models to personality differences. Development requires that people work together & that communication occurs freely. Forcing people to unify doesn't mean that they will freely do so -- especially when much of the work is done without pay. Quote:
To be fair, developers in the various projects do watch what is committed into the various code repositories. Given that each of the *BSD projects descends from a common base means that some bug fixes & drivers can be ported from one project to another, but the greatest limiting factor is whether competent engineers are both capable & willing to do the work. Nevertheless, merging entire projects means that some project identity may be lost, & scaling development teams who aren't being paid is a real management issue. Because the *BSD world is predicated on the resulting code be freely available to other uses (read the BSD license...), the various projects are primarily managed by engineers. Engineers don't necessarily make good managers, & managing large teams of developers requires real management skills. I don't see unification ever occurring in the *BSD world because the motivation isn't there. |
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UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. |
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You *just* did't get the point, not even a bit and I feel sorry for this . ocicat really understood my point. Let me give you a quick resume about me: I am using Unix systems since 1991, I have worked and administer in the past with Sco unix, SunOS, Digital Unix, Solaris, AIX and I have got official certifications for Tru64 unix and Solaris. Currently my job is head administrator of over 350 servers with Solaris/RHEL linux in a respectful company in my country. I personally use FreeBSD for hobby since 1996 and I'm very happy with it. I know which is the roots of each major bsd distribution and their focuses and I know about computers in general (I have computer engineering and electronic engineer degree), probably better than you both, too. |
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I don't know about Oko, but I'm not very fond of people like you.. I honestly don't care how smart you think you are, but considering you feel the need to say that you're smarter then both of us.. that just speaks volumes about your character.
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cut the bull and close this topic
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Verbose mode can also be turned on for SSH2 with the (surprise!) VerboseMode keyword. |
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I am also sticking with my assessment of your knowledge in spite of your formal credentials. |
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Pretend I am a big pitbull who going to bite the first person who's going to continue this non-sense.
Back on topic, everything else can be fought in private if you feel the need.
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UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. |
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If something works for everything, it doesn't work for anything
Make each program do one thing well. you can tell same for BSD (FreeBSD=perfomance, OpenBSD=security, NetBSD=portability) merging projects would sacrifice bought performance, security and portability (+ big bonus of bugs) |
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I like that...I'm going to steal it
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"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -Philip K. Dick Last edited by roddierod; 4th June 2009 at 05:52 PM. |
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"If you'll trade your horse over and over, eventually you'll get old (bad) horse" (well something like this)
Linux people should read this quote, especially working on linux audio systems and package management (this is very old saying, but it's still effective up until nowadays) Last edited by graudeejs; 4th June 2009 at 09:34 PM. |
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