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View Poll Results: Would you like to see BSD bundled with a full suite of 3rd party programs?
Yes 0 0%
No 11 73.33%
Gag me with a spoon 4 26.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 23rd August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihex View Post
It was directly in response to many people as of late stating they used Linux instead of BSD because it came pre-rolled with programs absent from the default install of FreeBSD and OpenBSD, and wishing BSD could be more like Linux.
Those complaints are good advertising. It keeps the wrong people away and encourages the right people to come.
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Old 23rd August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacerdos_daemonis View Post
Those complaints are good advertising. It keeps the wrong people away and encourages the right people to come.
I've read where several people over the past few days have said where it was "too hard", or "I must be getting lazy", or "it's like learning a different language" as an excuse for not using BSD.

So yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. BSD is not for everybody and shouldn't try to be.
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Old 24th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
You made a silly thread and got a silly answer... (I don't see any evidence of "trolling").

That's pretty much it.

@Trihex:
You first post was vague to me but the underlying question was interesting. 3rd party already exists in the various BSD's bases, at different level and are sometime being progressively expelled from the base (GPL licence code from OBSD).
Your second post (that I also read or else I wouldn't have answered it...) sounded to me like "Who wants F/OBSD install media with Desktop suite similar to Debian 8 Live?" and that brings the answer "already done: PC-BSD/TrueOS".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihex View Post
The OpenBSD base install included Xenocara as well.
Xenocara is not 3rd party because it's fully part of the OBSD project.
GCC on the other hand is an example of 3rd party software in base.
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Old 24th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkygoby View Post
Xenocara is not 3rd party...
Hi, it's Mr. Pedantic here, just checking in. Xenocara does include some 3rd party components, documented in /usr/xenocara/3RDPARTY.
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Old 24th August 2017
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I thought xenocara was 3rd party software in base:

https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html

Quote:
What's included in the base system?
OpenBSD is distributed with a number of third-party software products, including:

X.org
GCC
Perl
NSD and Unbound
ncurses
binutils
gdb

The OpenBSD team often patches third party products, typically to improve the security or quality of the code. Much home-grown software is also included. Additional applications are available as packages.
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Old 24th August 2017
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From /usr/xenocara/README:
Quote:
o About Xenocara
--------------
Xenocara is the name chosen for OpenBSD's version of X. It's
currently based on X.Org 7.7 and its dependencies. The goal of
Xenocara is to provide a framework to host local modifications and to
automate the build of the modular X.Org components, including 3rd
party packages and some software maintained by OpenBSD developers.
The 3rd party packages referenced here and in /usr/xenocara/3RDPARTY are X components which are not from the OpenBSD Project and not from X.Org, such as xterm and Freetype.

Last edited by jggimi; 24th August 2017 at 11:06 AM. Reason: added further explanation
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Old 28th August 2017
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I voted "no" because I would prefer that the developers focused their efforts on a limited range of software of known good quality.
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Old 28th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkygoby View Post
That's pretty much it.

@Trihex:
You first post was vague to me but the underlying question was interesting. 3rd party already exists in the various BSD's bases, at different level and are sometime being progressively expelled from the base (GPL licence code from OBSD).
Your second post (that I also read or else I wouldn't have answered it...) sounded to me like "Who wants F/OBSD install media with Desktop suite similar to Debian 8 Live?" and that brings the answer "already done: PC-BSD/TrueOS".


Xenocara is not 3rd party because it's fully part of the OBSD project.
GCC on the other hand is an example of 3rd party software in base.
You hit it on the head. It's the license, mainly. Most of the referenced apps from the Debian ISO are GPL3 - which is verboten in the FreeBSD base installation. So, that also precludes GCC 4.1+
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Old 28th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rons View Post
You hit it on the head. It's the license, mainly. Most of the referenced apps from the Debian ISO are GPL3 - which is verboten in the FreeBSD base installation. So, that also precludes GCC 4.1+

I thought it missed it by a mile, beings as the poll question was 'Would you like to see BSD bundled with a full suite of 3rd party programs?", and had a possible response of "Yes", No', or "Gag me with a spoon".

Not "Why can't BSD be bundled with a full suite of 3rd party programs?" and why it couldn't be.

But I am so tried of online arguments I could choose option 3 and didn't bother to point that out before.
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Old 29th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihex View Post
Not "Why can't BSD be bundled with a full suite of 3rd party programs?" and why it couldn't be.
IF that was the case, it would be relevant, would it not?

"Would you like to see ...?"
"Yes, but it is not possible, because ..."
If that is not true someone would respond with "No, it could be done."

What is the problem? This is not a serious technical thread. It is about a hypothetical/fantasy question.
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Old 29th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacerdos_daemonis View Post
IF that was the case, it would be relevant, would it not?
Point being, it is not. But thanks for furthering the argument.

Now please excuse me while I get out my spoon.
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Old 29th August 2017
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You seem somewhat perturbed that some posters missed the intent/point of your thread? (even when the point/intent was never clear in the first place and very much open to interpretation).

Funkygoby's/rons' points regarding licensing are also valid and ontopic.
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Old 29th August 2017
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I don't understand this thread at all.

I for one would welcome an outside effort to provide a siteXX.tgz that would set up one of the big three DMs (Gnome/KDE/Xfce) and a bunch of other "expected" applications: LibreOffice, VLC, Gimp, git, python, go, a bunch of games, etc. and some config file tweaks to make it all nice and "just work." Sure, it'd end up with a smorgasbord of licenses, GPL included, but since it's not part of the base system, who cares? It's not contaminating anything. And the user would have to go out of their way to intentionally install it. Or, you can roll your own for your own private installs and have it all set up for you at install time. Oh, and having clean cvs checkouts of the src, ports, and xenocara trees so new users can get started right away writing patches would be a positive.

But really, having a signified siteXX.tgz that a user can download and run
Code:
doas tar xvzfp -C / siteXX.tgz
might well be something nice for new users or people looking to get into ports development, seeing as there are a whole lot of existing ports that could use some love, and it would more quickly identify new ports that users want (and maybe they'll even get started rolling their own ports and updating existing ones). And a great way to discover which ones need love and which ones need to be added is to use a whole lot of stuff and see what needs you have.

As long as it doesn't take away from developer resources, I don't see the problem here at all. The main downside would be tracking -current, but that's where new ports get developed so that's the way it is.
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Old 30th August 2017
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I don't think that was ever an issue? Anyone who wants to create and distribute their own siteXX.tgz can do so (I actually think that's a great idea and a very eloquent way of providing a "ready to go" customised install).

Oh well, that's web forums for you (and ambiguity)...
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