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Old 10th September 2017
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http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=ne...idding-Old-X11
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GNOME's Mutter Loses Some Of Its X11 Dependence
Written by Michael Larabel in GNOME on 10 September 2017 at 07:31 AM EDT. 16 Comments
GNOME -- One of the interesting Google Summer of Code projects this year associated with the GNOME project was on reworking the Mutter compositor from requiring X11/XWayland code-paths for starting the Wayland compositor.
https://armin-gnome.blogspot.ba/2017...c-wrap-up.html
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Old 16th September 2017
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Default http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=X11-Turns-30

Today Marks 30 Years Since The Release Of X11
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The X11 window system turns 30 years old today! X11 which still lives on through today via the X.Org Server on Linux, BSD, Solaris, and other operating systems is now three decades old.

It was on this day in 1987 that Ralph Swick of MIT announced the X Window System Version 11 Release 1. As explained in the announcement compared to earlier versions of X, X11 offered "This release represents a major redesign and enhancement of X and signals it's graduation from the research community into the product engineering and development community. The X Window System version 11 is intended to be able to support virtually all known instances of raster display hardware and reasonable future hardware, including hardware supporting deep frame buffers, multiple colormaps and various levels of hardware graphics assist."

X11 has been extended many times over the years and with a wealth of extensions not envisioned back in the 80's, but it's still living on. Of course, a codebase of 30 years does bring with it a lot of bugs and security issues have especially come to light in the past few years with the xorg-server.

Wayland continues making more inroads as more compositors begin nearing parity to their desktop support under X11, but the X.Org Server is still expected to live on for years to come for X11 application compatibility for software that may never see native Wayland support, other operating systems lacking all the infrastructure at this time for Wayland, etc.

Happy 30th birthday X11!
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Old 16th September 2017
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Wayland vs Xorg Performance

Result: Overall they perform the same with no advantage one over the other.
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Old 16th September 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
Wayland vs Xorg Performance

Result: Overall they perform the same with no advantage one over the other.
I think general extrapolation of performance is not justified by this test result. It just happens that this specific version of that specific Wayland compositor is approximately the same in the terms of performance than Gnome/X.Org session.
I also think that for OpenBSD community for which security, stability and simplicity (from the point of the developer) are values worth working for, performance should not be mentioned as an only argument for Wayland.
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Old 17th September 2017
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Here are some talks about Wayland compared to X.Org:
The Real Story Behind Wayland and X - Daniel Stone (linux.conf.au 2013)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44

GStreamer Conference 2014 > GStreamer on Wayland Overview
https://gstconf.ubicast.tv/videos/gs...land-overview/

Hello Wayland, Goodbye X11 - The year of the Linux desktop! - Carsten Haitzler - FOSSASIA 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsz7Shbnb9c
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Old 7th February 2018
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KDE Plasma 5.12.0 released.

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There is also an important change of policy: 5.12 is the last release which sees feature development in KWin on X11. With 5.13 onwards, only new features relevant to Wayland are going to be added.

We have put a lot of work into making Wayland support in Plasma as good as possible, but there are still some missing features and issues with particular hardware configurations. Therefore, we don't yet recommend it for daily use. More information is available on the Wayland status wiki page.
https://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.12.0.php
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Old 9th July 2018
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GNOME 3.30 Mutter Relieves Wayland Code From Depending Upon X11/XWayland
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While GNOME's Wayland support has been in great shape with the Mutter compositor, it has depended upon X11/XWayland code even when starting with pure Wayland support. That's now changing and there is also now the optional "--no-x11" flag for starting the compositor without X11 support.

Going back to 2015 has been this bug report about how the GNOME Wayland session will still spawn XWayland even if no X11 applications are needed with parts of the event loop still depending upon X11. Thanks to a big Mutter rework, that is no longer the case.
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Old 28th June 2019
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Red Hat Expecting X.Org To "Go Into Hard Maintenance Mode Fairly Quickly"
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So in case you didn't read that blog post about Fedora Workstation 31, Red Hat's Christian Schaller says it's their belief that X.Org will soon be going into "maintenance mode" in favor of Wayland.
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Old 12th April 2020
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Firefox 75 was released April 7th 2020. Firefox support for Wayland is more and more complete. I use Gnu/Linux and Openbox/X11 at my laptop, but at this point I seriously consider switch to KDE/Wayland.

Firefox 75 Released With Flatpak Support, Wayland Improvements
Quote:
Also significant for Firefox 75 on Linux is Firefox on Wayland having full WebGL and working VA-API support as some long overdue improvements.
X.Org vs. Wayland Browser Performance With Firefox + Chrome

Firefox tips for Fedora 31
Quote:
Fedora 31 Workstation comes with a Firefox backend moved from X11 to Wayland by default. That’s just another step in the ongoing effort of moving to Wayland. This affects GNOME on Wayland only.
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Last edited by e1-531g; 12th April 2020 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Fedora 31 remark
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Old 12th April 2020
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Damn, Wayland's performances are so disappointing...
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Old 12th April 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrettchen View Post
Damn, Wayland's performances are so disappointing...
Performance have never been an reason Wayland was created.
Phoronix however is an website that focuses on performance*, graphics and gaming. It isn't surprising Phoronix conducted benchmarks and published them.

* graphics but also file system performance, compile times
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Old 13th April 2020
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Problem is that with more than 10 years of dev, Wayland still offers poor performances.

Ofc, Wayland has superior technology and design, but those don't necessarily mean much for the general users today (remember the RISC vs. CISC war back in the 90's).
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Old 13th April 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrettchen View Post
Problem is that with more than 10 years of dev, Wayland still offers poor performances.
Benchmarks show performance in most test is better for Gnome/Wayland session than Gnome/X.Org. For me even 70% of Gnome/X.Org would be enough to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrettchen View Post
Ofc, Wayland has superior technology and design, but those don't necessarily mean much for the general users today (remember the RISC vs. CISC war back in the 90's).
Wayland's motto is "every frame is perfect". It means it is better suited to prevent tearing, stuttering and other conditions. Wayland make it possible to support technologies like G-Sync and FreeSync.
Wayland is also better suited for current hardware. A lot of people use more than one GPU. It may be desktop with two dedicated GPU cards. It may be laptop with combination of integrated GPU and dedicated GPU (i.e. Nvidia Optimus). A lot of people use more than one monitor. First monitor may have different refresh rate and resolution than the second. First monitor may have HiDPI, while second does not. Wayland is better suited for that environment.
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Old 13th April 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrettchen View Post
Problem is that with more than 10 years of dev, Wayland still offers poor performances.
Wayland is just a protocol and reference implementation in library. These libraries are used by other people/projects to create Wayland compositors/display servers. Wayland display server is something like X server, but difference is that X server has one widely-used implementation, but there are many Wayland display servers. Gnome provides their own called Mutter. KDE Project provides another called KWin. You can't judge KDE's KWin/Wayland performance based on Gnome's Mutter benchmarks.
Wayland development was started over 10 years ago, but this doesn't mean Gnome team is working on it for over 10 years. I think serious work by Gnome team started about 7 years ago and serious KDE's team work started around 6 years ago. I don't know exactly when Mozilla started some work on supporting Wayland, but I bet it wasn't 10 years ago.
As I said for me performance is good enough. It also shows that Firefox didn't crashed during benchmark which is even more important for me.

BTW When it comes to performance one solution it is to just buy better, faster hardware. I know it is very ugly workaround, but you can't eliminate tearing by changing GPU. The point is first problem has solution, while without Wayland second doesn't.
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Old 3rd July 2020
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Important Patches Land To Improve GNOME's Multi-Monitor Experience With High Refresh Rates
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This branch, while being quite large, has one major aim: split up the frame clock so that on the native backend each CRTC is driven by its own frame clock. In effect this means that e.g. a 144 Hz monitor and a 60 Hz monitor being active in the same session will not have to wait for each other to render. A window on the 144 Hz monitor will paint at 144 Hz, and mutter will composite to the monitor at 144 Hz, while a window on the 60 Hz monitor will paint at 60 Hz and mutter will composite to the monitor at 60 Hz.
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This work landed today in Mutter for September's release of GNOME 3.38. This next release is shaping up to be quite exciting with the plethora of optimizations to already land thus far. It is important to note that this multi-monitor improvement only benefits the GNOME Wayland session and not under X11.
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Old 25th October 2020
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It's Time To Admit It: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware
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The last major release of the X.Org Server was in May 2018 but don't expect the long-awaited X.Org Server 1.21 to actually be released anytime soon.

This should hardly be surprising but a prominent Intel open-source developer has conceded that the X.Org Server is pretty much "abandonware" with Wayland being the future.
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Old 29th October 2020
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Phoronix pointed to article on abandoning the X server
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Originally Posted by 'Adam Jackson"
There's been some recent discussion about whether the X server is abandonware. As the person arguably most responsible for its care and feeding over the last 15 years or so, I feel like I have something to say about that.

The thing about being the maintainer of a public-facing project for nearly the whole of your professional career is it's difficult to separate your own story from the project. So I'm not going to try to be dispassionate, here.
Adam's comments are interesting as well.
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Last edited by e1-531g; 29th October 2020 at 07:48 AM. Reason: bbcode fix
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