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Old 1st July 2017
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Default Linux's Systemd can be pwned via an evil DNS query

This is the systemd DNS service that Poettering & co. recommended to use...
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0..._by_dns_query/

Some others considerations about resolvd from Andrew Ayer's blog:
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DNS is a complicated, security-sensitive protocol. In August 2014, Lennart Poettering declared that "systemd-resolved is now a pretty complete caching DNS and LLMNR stub resolver." In reality, systemd-resolved failed to implement any of the documented best practices to protect against DNS cache poisoning. It was vulnerable to Dan Kaminsky's cache poisoning attack which was fixed in every other DNS server during a massive coordinated response in 2008 (and which had been fixed in djbdns in 1999). Although systemd doesn't force you to use systemd-resolved, it exposes a non-standard interface over DBUS which they encourage applications to use instead of the standard DNS protocol over port 53. If applications follow this recommendation, it will become impossible to replace systemd-resolved with a more secure DNS resolver, unless that DNS resolver opts to emulate systemd's non-standard DBUS API.
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Old 1st July 2017
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There are several Linux distributions that don't use systemd. For example Slackware.
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Old 2nd July 2017
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RedHat, the most used in the US for commercial use, (or if not them, CentOS), says that their version of systemd isn't affected.
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Old 2nd July 2017
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Do any Linux distributions actually use systemd's "stub resolver" that is affected by this vulnerability?

I use systemd-networkd to connect in my Arch & Debian boxes but systemd-resolved's built-in DNS never worked for me and I use unbound instead (which works fine in conjuction with systemd-networkd).

The vast majority of distributions use good ol' NetworkManager and that doesn't use the stub resolver at all, AFAIK.
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Old 2nd July 2017
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It was identified as being vulnerable to cache poisoning a few years ago: http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592

And this was a few years after publication of RFC5452 (2009).

Many Linux people simply have their heads in the sand with regards to systemd and it's pretty much "bandwagon fallacy" all over again, where systemd fans are sneering at anyone who doesn't want systemd and treating the widespread adoption of shit code as "inevitable". This really proves that systemd fans aren't so different from the average windows user, who many in turn look down upon.

It seems to me that some are so heavily invested in this crap that they can't easily back out and just want others to just shut up and put up and do the same, so that they can feel more at ease with their choice.

The old "you don't have to use this bit or that bit" excuses from the apologists are wearing a bit thin.
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Old 2nd July 2017
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Practically, saying code it yourself, or use something else no longer applies. RedHat is kind of the Microsoft of the Linux world and Poettering is their employee. Though various niche distributions won't use it, it's become almost impossible to avoid, at least when using Linux commercially, especially after Debian and Ubuntu went over, to avoid. Yes, you could use Slack, or Gentoo, or a few others, but generally, in the US at least, people are going to expect RedHat/CentOS and/or Debian/Ubuntu.
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Old 2nd July 2017
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I saw this on Twitter from Rob Graham (@ErrataRob) regarding this issue:
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Among the things wrong with systemd is trying to re-invent the wheel without prior experience with wheels.
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Old 3rd July 2017
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Meh, it's like insulting some politicians. There is so much obviously bad about it, but it is now there, and rather than railing against it, one just has to be on their guard to avoid its pitfalls.
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Old 3rd July 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
... but it is now there, and rather than railing against it, one just has to be on their guard to avoid its pitfalls.
There is another option. Linux users can accept the bad fact and be on guard or they can stop using Linux. But you are correct in your sentiment. The time for complaining ended a few years ago. Continuing to use the system and complaining about it makes no sense. Either use it or do not.
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Old 15th July 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacerdos_daemonis View Post
There is another option. Linux users can accept the bad fact and be on guard or they can stop using Linux. But you are correct in your sentiment. The time for complaining ended a few years ago. Continuing to use the system and complaining about it makes no sense. Either use it or do not.
I run Slackware when I run Linux, and I run OpenBSD on two laptops. Both operating systems are systemd free.
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Old 15th July 2017
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This site, Without Systemd, has a large list of systemd-free Linux distributions. They also list many other Unix-like OSs, but I'm not sure if systemd is a direct threat to be ported to them or not.
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Old 15th July 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
I run Slackware when I run Linux ... systemd free.
Free for now, but how long will Volkerding be able to keep it at bay?
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and I run OpenBSD on two laptops.
Which is irrelevant to the Linux developments in question.
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Old 15th July 2017
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If you're just running Linux at home, then you can use one of the variants. If using it at work, at least in the US, the most common thing to see is CentOS. A lot of people stayed on CentOS-6 to avoid systemd, but it's getting somewhat long in the tooth. We have some CentOS-7.x machines and so far, they're not horrible. Heh, just realized that I'm writing this from a CentOS-7 machine, but this is a home workstation-cum-server where I'm not that concerned.
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Old 16th July 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacerdos_daemonis View Post
Free for now, but how long will Volkerding be able to keep it at bay?
Good question. Systemd is not in Slackware-current yet, so I think there is a better than average chance that the next stable release of Slackware will not have systemd. Therefore, Slackware will continue to be systemd free for the next 1-2 years.
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Old 16th July 2017
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Problem with replacing systemd is it exposes and encourages to use its non-standard interfaces. Software can be written to be systemd-dependend. Large part of FOSS community idea is to not only write, share and use freely licensed software (code), but also use openly standardized protocols (e.g. HTTP, XMPP), file formats (e.g. Open Document Format) and programming interfaces. It seems like systemd has only freely licensed code, but does not bother to meet other requirements of FOSS.
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Old 16th July 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Good question. Systemd is not in Slackware-current yet, so I think there is a better than average chance that the next stable release of Slackware will not have systemd. Therefore, Slackware will continue to be systemd free for the next 1-2 years.
Yup. In fact Slackware 13.0 was released in 2009 and is still receiving patches. So the next release of Slackware (14.3 ?, 15.0 ?, 14.37 ?? ) could be expected to be supported for 7+ years. Of course, as scottro pointed out, such a system could become "long in the tooth" depending on the requirements.

Probably there's a positive side to this too. 7 years is a long time in computing. Lots can and will change. systemd could well be dead as a doornail by then, killed by its own demerits. Whatever good ideas it may have could be implemented differently. We'll probably all be worried about something else by then.
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Old 16th July 2017
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For me Slackware is missing security mitigations, so I prefer OpenBSD.
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Last edited by e1-531g; 16th July 2017 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 24th July 2017
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If I must use Linux, lately I've sometimes been using Alpine. Not only does it not have systemd, it also does not have the GNU C lib.
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