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Other BSD and UNIX/UNIX-like Any other flavour of BSD or UNIX that does not have a section of its own. |
View Poll Results: what linux distro do you use and/or like? | |||
Redhat / Centos | 24 | 15.09% | |
Suse | 4 | 2.52% | |
Debian | 36 | 22.64% | |
Slackware | 30 | 18.87% | |
Gentoo | 13 | 8.18% | |
Ubuntu | 23 | 14.47% | |
Others | 29 | 18.24% | |
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll |
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-- OSS by default instead of ALSA sh!t. -- /etc/rc.conf -- pkgsrc.org for package management -- minimal install -- BSD style init scripts (like Slackware) -- at the beginning based on Slackware
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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Do you guys think CentOS might still be better for me since my host uses it? My thought is that it's one less thing they can throw at me if I have a problem. Since it's tied into Fedora I assume I won't have any package issues finding anything I want.
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It's more RH than Fedora, meaning the packages will be older. The only real problem I've had is sound on a particular laptop, which I believe is due to an older version of alsa. (I haven't had this problem on my desktop.)
There is a 5.2 live CD that you can try to make sure it works with your hardware. The forums are far smaller and more serious than Fedora's. (Their forum software is also old, though that's going to be updated sooner or later.) Intelligent questions are usually answered relatively quickly though. (However, completely beginner questions, showing the user hasn't done any research are either ignored or sent to the various resources. In contrast, Fedora's forums will often start a silly off-topic thread leading to beer. I think it's because the CentOS people tend to be IT professionals and probably older.) They pay more attention to getting things properly documented than do either Fedora or RedHat. For example, a major change in bind (location of files) wasn't listed in RH's changelog. Someone filed a bug report on RH's horribly slow and cumbersome bugzilla, suggesting that a README.RedHat be included in /usr/share/doc if nowhere else, and the developer said, nah, you've posted it here. In contrast, CentOS quickly had it in their FAQ. If the liveCD works with your hardware, I'd say go for it. It's far more stable, there are far fewer updates, and the QA is probably better than RH's and definitely better than Fedora's. (In fairness, Fedora never claims to be anything else save on its public web pages. However, when people come on the Fedora forums complaining how updates broke something, they're often told, nicely as a rule, that they might be better off using Ubuntu or something similar. We Fedora veterans expect it to break, especially just after a new release. Some more esoteric packages might be harder to find. You're using different repos, things built for RHEL 5 rather than Fedora--there are a few people, such as Dag Wiers, however, who serve the equivalent of Livna repos, though again, the packages are usually more stable and better tested. Like Debian, they put emphasis on stability rather than having the latest and greatest. |
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Yeah, I did mean RH, not Fedora. Thanks.
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@Vermaden--while I agree that alsa seems to be the answer to a question no one asked, isn't that part of the issue with Flash 9? (The reason, when I worked in a more BSD environment, that I kept Linux on a machine--Arch, in that case. Oh, and for VirtualBox.)
If I'm correct about that--not sure that I am--and I were back in a more BSD oriented environment, it would defeat the whole purpose of using Linux in the first place. I did look at it last time you mentioned it as it seemed interesting, but it didn't seem well documented at the time, which is usually my biggest complaint about Linux--it's another plus for Arch, they have an excellent wiki, and they seem to pay attention to getting things documented. As an aside--I think that one reason Gentoo exploded on the scene when it came out was due as much to the docs as anything else. Daniel Robbins, who writes some good articles for IBM developer works, writes great docs. He documented what was, especially back then, a rather complex installation process, enabling newcomers to become geeks quickly. As we all know <cough>cacti</cough> often, the biggest problem isn't that a program is so complex, it's that the documents are lacking. He had the right (in my opinion) attitude as well. Originally in describing the creation of /etc/fstab he would use hdXX. As Gentoo quickly became more popular, a lot of newcomers made errors with that, copying it exactly---rather than whining about their lameness, he added a line explaining the XX. That's just one example. Far too often, when a newcomer can't understand documentation, it's blamed on the newcomer, rather than the doc itself. But that's another thread. Still, as time passes, you get more people, such as the aforementioned Vermaden, who when they write a howto and someone doesn't understand it, takes that as a bug in his software (the howto is software in a way) and fixes it rather than blaming the user. |
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@scottro
Dunno if flash 9 works with OSS on Linux, never tried, I am personally more interested in OpenSolaris (Flash9 + Java working out of the box with OSS4). VirtualBox also runs good on OpenSolaris, even seamless mode works I have a buddy that uses OSS4 on Gentoo and he has sound and everything with Flash 9. Also now everything is smooth, while when he was using ALSA + pulsesh!t + other typical Linux audio layers everything that played sound was choking from time to time but when he switched to OSS4 wverything is smooth now, and he does not have old box (C2D 2.4GHz + 2GB RAM). Draco is very young project, while Arch is several years old, pacman isnt all that bad, and as all other Linux, Arch also can be used with OSS4, but I like idea behind Draco to use these things as defaults. Documentaton always was and is a problem in Linux world, even if you have pretty good documented userland and /etc like in Gentoo or Arch, the Linux kernel itself still remains one big mess, I often have a feeling that doing make random will do better then if I would add options myself. Quote:
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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vermaden, I was speaking from experience. Arch is very BSD-like, but the installer is unpolished, for one thing. It's a little complicated to use with respect to the NetBSD and FreeBSD installers. Even the OpenBSD installer is a little more simpler to use than it. Pacman, as it is, needs some work and the AUR build system is complicated and less automated than ports. The AUR build system is what turned me away from Arch. However, you know what happens when a person crosses the line over to the BSD camp and becomes accustomed to the BSD camp. They become spoiled by the consistency, stability, security, and performance of their operating system. Linux is still too stuck in the crusader-type philosophy for its own good. The idea that users should help in the debugging process is a noble one, but it's no excuse to release alpha code in a stable release, and I suspect the Linux kernel is beta code at best.
Also, I'm with you on OpenSolaris. I look forward to OpenSolaris maturing because the prospect of Flash 9 and Java with OSS4 on a traditional Unix is just amazing. Right now, my combination of FreeBSD and Mac OS X lets me accomplish everything I want to. If OpenSolaris matures to my liking, then I might as well add an OpenSolaris box to the mix too and use that when I need Flash. Swfdec runs relatively well on FreeBSD, but it's no prize. I was testing out pkgsrc on OpenSolaris today. It bootstrapped, but libiconv was giving me grief. It was a dependency for musicpd. I just gave up. One thing I do like about OpenSolaris is IPS. It's possibly the best binary package manager I've seen.
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"UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity." MacBook Pro (Darwin 9), iMac (Darwin 9), iPod Touch (Darwin 9), Dell Optiplex GX620 (FreeBSD 7.1-STABLE) Last edited by ninjatux; 4th August 2008 at 04:26 AM. |
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... for Linux documentation check options.c Quote:
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The IPS currently dissapoints me, they say that they have 10435 packages, that seem to be a lot, but they have 5-10 versions of each package (for every Solais version) so its count is limited to about 1200 as I last checked, that is almost none, there is only x11 + gnome + openoffice + some small addons. There are no window managers, file managers, small utilities, ides, editors, its just so limited. Maybe as time passes by developers will add more pachages to IPS, then it will be ok, but as of current state, package management on OpenSolaris still exists, unfortunelly. The IPS itself is ok, generally very simillar to apt-get from Debian (also created by Ian Murdock) or pkg_add in BSD but if they will not add new packages there, then IPS will be (and currently is ) useless for anthing more then base system + gnome.
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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Good for starters, i think Ubuntu is the best linux distro and it is free.
Last edited by prijikn; 4th August 2008 at 10:39 AM. |
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But Ubuntu is not bad when you need desktop instalation fast.
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. |
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@Carpetsmoker
Unfortunelly, that's true, especially lack of good package management is big con here. Currently there is avialable refresh ISO of Opensolaris 2008.05 based on build93 SXCE, but I am curious about next major release, 2008.11.
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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Package managment is one thing, the lack of documentation is another, not to mention several pretty sloppy errors/mistakes I came across ...
At this point, if I had to choose between Linux and OpenSolaris, I would choose Linux and not have a second thought.
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UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. |
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@Carpetsmoker
There is no such thing as Handbook for Solaris or OpenSolaris, but there are a lot of docs/books on docs.sun.com, for example their book about Administration with Virtualization has 540+ pages and 42 chapters, and thats only about virtualziation. I think that we just need to get used to other model of documentation then handbook: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.23 Linux kernel does not have documentation at all and you have to check options.c for details.
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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Ok, I already removed OpenSolaris from my system ... So too late I guess ... Maybe I'll try again in a year orso...
Meanwhile I decided to install Debian ... Not sure why, seemed like fun ... Well, it turned out to be just as much fun as getting gangraped by a group of male Klingons. The end result was three wasted hours, a lot a frustration, and a shattered Debian CD ... I didn't even manage to actually boot the OS. Why-o-why is it that: o I can not configure grub or lilo from the debian CD WITHOUT installing the OS itself? o The debian installer reports vague errors but then continues like nothing happened? o Linux can't just boot like any other OS ... But HAS to use grub or lilo? o The linux kernel panics when it can't figure out the root FS (Instead of asking the user). Also, the system requirements of Debian are incomplete, in order to install it, the user must not be epileptic, or I fear he/she will get seizures when using the retarded debian partition manager. Today I am reminded again why I don't use Linux, and even more so why debian is the most retarded Linux distribution of them all ...
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UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things. |
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Maybe Debian is too easy for you. Or you had just some kind of bad luck (could happen to anyone!). I'm using Debian since 2003 and I have installed it on several systems - without any problem. As always truth lies in the eye of the one who watches ... no harm, just kiddin' |
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Once upon a time (199x) BSD was on the strait road for the primary open source alternative, a great one, but then Linux shit happen (thanks torvalds :/ ), this reminds me the history of AMIGA, not Commodore AMIGA, AMIGA, check Ars TEchnica for the whole history: http://arstechnica.com/articles/cult...iga-part-1.ars (there are 7 parts, make a coffee). Quote:
But I like that feature, its very usefull, when you want give the choice of the installation to thebuddy that is miles from you, or just go back to your workstation and continue. But I do not see any other innovation in Debian generally. I also hate their www server defautl configs. In FreeBSD we have ONE nginx.conf or httpd.conf simple, but in debian we have a whole bunch of files links dirs and so, sites-enabled, sites-disabled, modules-enabled, modules-to-consider, just great ...
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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I like Mac OS X as much as I like FreeBSD, which is a high complement; I used to bash it quite a bit in my Linux days, but I was oblivious. Once I started using it, I discovered that it behaves much like any other Unix I've used. You can do everything straight from the command line if you wish or just use the GUI. I didn't need to customize the look because the GUI is lean and has enough eye-candy. It's fancy eye-candy, but usable eye-candy, unlike Compiz, Compiz-Fusion, or Kwin4. MacPorts is a nice package manager, but it does contain a limited amount of ports. The common applications are there, and those install and run very nicely, but if you need something that's not in the tree, then you will have to go through several hoops to have it run on Mac OS X. MacPorts integrates very well with OS X as well. The applications that are available via MacPorts natively are installed as .apps.
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"UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity." MacBook Pro (Darwin 9), iMac (Darwin 9), iPod Touch (Darwin 9), Dell Optiplex GX620 (FreeBSD 7.1-STABLE) |
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