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Old 17th August 2017
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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Default FreeBSD bashing on FreeBSD forum

I've grown weary of the now allowed FreeBSD bashing by Linux users over there so I'm moving back here. Too bad this forum isn't as active but maybe that can change.

What happened is, a new guy showed up over there and bashed FreeBSD to bits while promoting Linux and Debian over it. At least two others called him a troll. I called the guy out but was told by the mod that he's uneducated and we need to win him over. Then my signature was censored.

The new guy said he was "self banning" himself and removing FreeBSD from his machine cause Debian was better but he showed back up a couple of days later and continued his BSD bashing ways.

After 14 years of being on FreeBSD forums, going back to bsdforums.com, I have never seen such behavior and I won't be a part of it. Things really went downhill after @DutchDaemon quit moderating.

Last edited by drhowarddrfine; 17th August 2017 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 17th August 2017
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Did I miss something? Since when @DutchDaemon quit moderating on FreeBSD forums?
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Old 17th August 2017
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I've noticed a decline in the quality of 'technical' forum threads for years, I don't think it's just the FreeBSD forums - you have entitled "consumers" who expect a polished end product developed for FREE, which they believe has to "compete" somehow with other OS offerings. They like to lecture people with their pseudo technical babble, but are ultimately clueless and only masters of googling and copying and pasting. They often turn to trolling when challenged.

I see a lot of chat in forums, especially Linux forums, but nothing much in the way of any experience or knowledge - just people fishing for some dupe to do all the hard work for them or talk them through fixing their broken mess for them or lots of chat about how x is better than y. "Low signal to noise ratio", as it used to be called.
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Old 17th August 2017
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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@Maxnix SirDice moderates now. Dutch still has the privilege, I think, but I don't think he visits as often. I wonder whether what @cynwulf talks about is a reason. I agree with @cynwulf and I've pointed out on the FreeBSD forum and elsewhere for quite a while. In fact, I noticed a lot of people don't show up at all anymore that I've known over the years, many of whom are still here on this one.

And now I've been banned over there for a month. They say "I've been warned" but, no, I did not receive any warnings about anything. Only that they edited out my signature.

After 14 years of FreeBSD forum usage, I'm banned over someone who bashes FreeBSD and actively promotes Debian over there. Explain that one to me.

Last edited by drhowarddrfine; 17th August 2017 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 17th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I see a lot of chat in forums, especially Linux forums, but nothing much in the way of any experience or knowledge - just people fishing for some dupe to do all the hard work for them or talk them through fixing their broken mess for them ...
Help vampire is the term. I could point out a classic example but don't want to link to a particular forum. I was a member there for 10 years and closed my account 3 years ago.

Edit: I saw where my user name had become available over time so I rejoined so nobody could take it and troll me.

Last edited by Trihex; 18th August 2017 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 18th August 2017
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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@Trihex knows who I'm talking about.
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Old 18th August 2017
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Yes. I could be mistaken but personally I suspect him of sending in the clowns to further disrupt the forums after rethinking his self-imposed ban.
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Old 18th August 2017
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I left a Linux forum a few years ago after a moderator chastised me for not being polite to a troll. It is a bad trend with fora, where trolls are considered more important than contributing members. Look at any Linux forum and there are only about half a dozen knowledgeable people. Most of them left because of the "polite at all costs help desk" mentality. If what is being described here is accurate, it is a shame that the decline of the internet forum is spreading to BSD.

I do not have a problem with light chatter, as long as it is isolated to an appropriate sub-forum. Unfortunately, when a forum with a few hundred or a couple thousand members only has five or six knowledgeable people, it is difficult to keep the clueless chatter out of the support sections.
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Old 18th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihex View Post
Yes. I could be mistaken but personally I suspect him of sending in the clowns to further disrupt the forums after rethinking his self-imposed ban.
Coincidentally, this kind of thing happened at the Debian forums about 6 or so years ago. The perpetrator played the staff and registered fake accounts, etc. The staff targeted the long term members and issued bans... but there's also the argument that the staff wanted to be played because they wanted "customer friendly" and wanted rid of some of the long term members and their "RTFM" culture.

The result was a schism with most of the "serious" experienced members leaving.

It's now a "fix my broken mess" / offtopic babbling site, populated with the usual frauds and copy and paste artists... if it weren't for this, as well as crap documentation and people not bothering to read it anyway, it wouldn't get even half the traffic it does.

I suggest just moving on permanently, when a forum goes bad, it's usually not going to get better. Forums just snowball and gain traction - when they get too big, some of the 'staff' types get too big for their boots and think it's a 'real job'... that's half the problem. When all is said and done, you either vote with your feet or put up and shut up.

Last edited by cynwulf; 18th August 2017 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 18th August 2017
gpatrick gpatrick is offline
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A couple of months ago I said they could remove my user ID because of remarks made by Oko toward a new user. Other forum members sided with Oko saying "you just have to get to know him," or "it's just the way he is." The new user said they were no longer going to use FreeBSD over the posts. The FreeBSD forum removed the entire thread.

I wanted no part of it and did not post until a few days ago when I saw another post by Oko where he was once again spreading FUD about NetBSD, which he has done repeatedly over the years. It's like a personal vendetta for him to spread the demise of NetBSD, possibly because of his perceived injustice Theo received because of his attitude and behavior toward other developers and users, and had his commit privileges revoked.

So I don't post there anymore. Let them be.

Last edited by gpatrick; 18th August 2017 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 18th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
@Maxnix SirDice moderates now. Dutch still has the privilege, I think, but I don't think he visits as often. I wonder whether what @cynwulf talks about is a reason. I agree with @cynwulf and I've pointed out on the FreeBSD forum and elsewhere for quite a while. In fact, I noticed a lot of people don't show up at all anymore that I've known over the years, many of whom are still here on this one.

And now I've been banned over there for a month. They say "I've been warned" but, no, I did not receive any warnings about anything. Only that they edited out my signature.

After 14 years of FreeBSD forum usage, I'm banned over someone who bashes FreeBSD and actively promotes Debian over there. Explain that one to me.
I think that the two threads you posted in [ wednesday, thursday, ] had one that
you termed a newbie who was unclear and overly uncertain of how the BSD community
may help him as a pair of terms that, if for some reason he became a member of
CORE and was called out for some other reason, could evict him from the
developer team. [ I try to limit my posts there to three per week, maybe try
that when your ban expires... forums are easy to take posts with wrong
intent due to the lack of tone of voice while typing VS in person Q/A... ]
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Old 18th August 2017
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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@jb_daefo No. The reason given for my ban was for what I posted in my signature, not anything else. I communicated directly with SirDice that I thought that person should be banned because he lied, stretched the truth, bashed FreeBSD while promoting Linux and Debian. I never received any response from SirDice or any other mod except one where he claimed the poster was only "uneducated" and we needed to convert him.
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Old 18th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
the poster was only "uneducated"
Generally speaking, the problem with uneducated users is the arrogance that sometimes they have when things don't work how they would / think should do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
and we needed to convert him.
Convert? Is all of this about technology or religion? As a BSD user I like promoting such OSes, but I wouldn't insist too much if other people are really conscious of the difference between choises. Of course, I would like to make clear all of the misunderstanding of their point of view/opinion about what I'm suggesting them, but an "at all costs" conversion without any reason but fanboyism is pointless IMHO (not saying that this was necessarily the case).
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Old 24th August 2017
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I'm curios what you posted in your signature to get you banned for a month drhowarddrfine?

At any rate, as I said a while back I mostly hang out on Stack Overflow and the related network of sites these days. The format is more limited and narrow compared to a forum such as this, but that's a good thing. It avoids all drama touched upon here for starters. I'm too old for internet drama.
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Old 24th August 2017
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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@Carpetsmoker After complaining to the mod about the poster lying and bashing FreeBSD, as mentioned above, and being told it was allowed, I put in my sig that the poster was a liar. I had three or four posts in threads where I directly called him one before that. A couple of days later, I noticed my sig was erased. So I re-posted it and again it was erased. Then I included something like, "And apparently this is OK with forum mods", which is what got me in trouble with SirDice as he claimed I was warned three times (I never any warnings) and I was not "above the forum mods".

His allowing a Linux pushing FreeBSD basher is just outrageous. Banning a 14 year pro-FreeBSD forum user in favor of a FreeBSD basher just pushes me over the edge.

I'm on SO, too, under my real name. I've seen you there. Though my rep level is about the same as yours, I quit answering questions for about a year when I noticed the same trend of allowing anyone to post anything despite the rules forbidding it. It's only recently I've started answering questions again as the tide turned a bit.
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Old 25th August 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine View Post
...we needed to convert him.
At this point I have to wonder who is being converted.

I remember clearly that OpenBSD screenshots were frowned upon in the FreeBSD forums and DutchDaemon warning against posting them. Now Debian screenshots are allowed.

Can Windows screenshots be far behind?
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Old 25th August 2017
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Speaking for myself only, I welcome drhowarddrfine's participation here, but I doubt any more complaints about FreeBSD's forum on this site will change much over at that site.

Years ago I learnt not to expect any given forum administration to be neutral zen masters, epitomising fairness, justice and impartiality... the human factor always comes into it - plus as I said above, some of the "staff" types take things too seriously.

Sometimes 'the law' isn't applied evenly because perspectives and personalities do come into it and also if you try to push an administration into a certain course of action, they will usually push back - and not bow to pressure.

And this can mean the 'counter trolls' are often treated in much the same way as the trolls. I can see why continually replacing a deleted signature which was deleted as it was deemed defamatory, would prompt action of some sort.

Trolls feed on a lot of drama and hullabaloo (such as you see in typical Linuxland web forums) and those web forum users responding to the troll in an antagonistic or negative manner must share the blame.

Last edited by cynwulf; 25th August 2017 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 25th August 2017
drhowarddrfine drhowarddrfine is offline
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@cynwulf I understand your point. I had privately reported the troll to the mods two or three times, and others had called the guy out as a troll before I did. I waited till I was told they were going to let him be before I went public. I was hoping the others would get on board and get the guy banned but, instead, I got banned and the troller still trapses around at will, as far as I know.

Last edited by drhowarddrfine; 25th August 2017 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 26th August 2017
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I prefer the administrative measures employed at our forum; I don't post as much at the FreeBSD Forum. I will leave it at that.
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