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FreeBSD General Other questions regarding FreeBSD which do not fit in any of the categories below. |
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Curiosity about BSD
Hello everyone! I'm realitykid (Devon Day) and I'm here just out of curiosity. I'm a Linux user, SimplyMEPIS 8.5 to be exact, and I have heard a lot about BSD. Now, I'm not itching to make any sort of migration from one system to another. I just did that with Windows. I'm just wondering how much better BSD is compared to Linux. It's just a curiosity, I'm not here to be a know it all (otherwise I wouldn't be asking) or to start a flame war of any kind. I'm one of the "peaceful" Linux users. I'm not an extremist and I do realize that Linux has flaws. Anyway! I'll be waiting for a reply!
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Define "better". Until clarity in terminology is acheived, any discussion is simply handwaving.
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Let me start of with some questions: 1) How friendly is BSD? I've heard some stories of it actually getting more and more friendly, specifically with the PC-BSD install process. 2) Does BSD interact well with most hardware? As in detecting it, having working drivers for it out of the box (or user installable drivers). I'm talking about stuff like video and audio specifically. But even wireless, which leads me to my next question. 3) Does BSD do well with wireless connections? I'm not talking specifically PCI wireless cards, but also USB adapters (such as mine). 4) Last, but certainly not least, does BSD usually have good community support? Now this is a big one for me. I wouldn't touch Linux with a ten foot pole, let alone use it, if the Linux based operating system that I want to use doesn't have a good community. Anyway, those are just the basics. Anything else you want to add, go for it. The more information I can get, the better my understanding will become. |
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From my understanding, PC-BSD is essentially introducing the "distribution" concept from the Linux community and building a desktop environment suitable for perhaps casual computer user around FreeBSD operating system (..kernel/userland) and offering extensibility using a software distribution system similar to Mac OS X "dmg" files. The installer for all of the BSD's have typically shared a common attribute, offering a similar experience whether you're on a system with a keyboard/monitor or installing headless over a serial connection, internally there isn't much difference between a local simulated terminal (kbd/monitor) or a real DEC VT220. Things might be changing, not everyone is familiar with text-based installers, but, done properly they can be quite "friendly" and even offer a level of control not offered by a graphical installer.. a Unix operating system is typically separate from any graphical stack you may or may not run atop of it (X+GTK/Qt). Quote:
There is typically no installable drivers, most are already bundled, but in the case of NetBSD and FreeBSD.. some drivers are not part of the default kernel image/binary and need to be selectively loaded (..kernel modules). With OpenBSD, all supported drivers are part of the default kernel (GENERIC/MP) and hardware is detected at each and every boot.. and new hardware/drivers are written with each new release. I'll touch on some issues with graphics, proprietary drivers for ATI/AMD do not exist on any of the BSD's, but quite fortunately you do not need them, this vendor has provided documentation to write open source drivers, and 3D acceleration should work, some slack should be given for later cards, as this takes time, nVidia does provide a proprietary driver for FreeBSD only, 2 open source drivers also exist (..one reverse engineered, the other now unmaintained by nVidia, 2D-only, and lacking support for new cards), this new open source driver still hasn't really made it's way into the BSD world.. not yet. Quote:
You'll have to approach this on a card by card basis, you can find a vendor/product number for your specific device and then determine if support exists in the specific *BSD flavour you're using. Quote:
I recommend reading more at the official websites, you can find more information, for at least NetBSD and OpenBSD, a large portion of development and user-related activity is on mailing lists.. but forums like daemonforums exist, there are even Usenet lists still active after several decades of operation. I hope that helps. |
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1) Friendly enough. Be warned I call ed friendly.
2) Not as well as Linux, although FreeBSD likes my hardware better than most Linux distro :-). 3.) The wireless support in Free/Open has been the best of any OS I've used. I assume Net' is also. Using supported hardware helps! 4.) Even more scientifically irrelevant than the first :-o.
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Usually, the Linux community associates "friendliness" with the ability to install by blindly accepting default choices. If this is your measure of friendliness, then the *BSD family may fall short.
Installing any of the *BSD's is not complicated, but it does require the user to familiarize themselves with the documentation provided by each project. Each of the *BSD's Websites have significant sections dedicated to installation, & studying this carefully should resolve most questions. The problems we typically deal with is users who have not taken the time to read the documentation. Case in point, the OpenBSD install script is simply a shell script. Some may find this as barbaric, but experienced users prefer this for its simplicity & ability to get the job done efficiently. Installation has been clocked on YouTube at ~four minutes, not that this is recommended, but it points out that installation doesn't need to include the graphics of World of Warcraft nor soundtracks akin to the Hamster dance. Installation should not involve heavyweight applications which may alter, or introduce its own set of issues to the hardware environment. If problems occur during installation, it is simpler to ferret out problems if the installation process is lightweight and minimally obstrusive. A better measure of "friendliness" is the documentation available. Each of the major projects in the *BSD family takes documentation very seriously, & the resulting clarity shows in the manpages. Here, the Linux community tends to fall short given that the common question coming from Linux users when first approaching the *BSD's is "Where are the howto's?". The various *BSD communities find this redundant given the time spent on cleaning up manpages. The information found in the manpages as well as on the project Websites should be sufficient for most questions -- both for the newbie & experienced user alike. Quote:
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I think the key is what is your goal?
If you want to learn I would recommend OpenBSD as the documentation to install, configure and populate with applications is concise and up to date Slackware is in many ways similar although I do not think the documentation is as good. Slackware has the advantage that all software (not just the base system) has security updates http://www.slackware.com/changelog/current.php?cpu=i386 OpenBSD used to have security updates for secondary packages but this was too much given the number of platforms supported by OpenBSD. In my opinion PC-BSD is the BSD equivalent of SimplyMepis. You are likely to get a working KDE desktop but you will not lean much about BSD unix in the process. Last edited by shep; 21st July 2010 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Added last paragraph |
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Agreed, I resisted the urge to write a long elaborate comparison, just for you.
In the future, while your intentions may have been honest, asking for a generalized and unbiased comparison is just unfair.. you need to do your own research using the information you have available, and make your own conclusions. Also, I notice you mention "BSD", and while you're posing in the FreeBSD section.. you may or may not realize that each of the BSD's have been developed separately for many years, and have diverged considerably. |
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Thanks for the help, rather the lack there of. That aside, I consider one BSD to be a branch of another. They are all related in the fact that all of the BSD operating systems are "BSD based". Not a whole lot different from what people call "Linux distributions". And I posted in the FreeBSD section because there wasn't a specific place for BSD in general. Anyways, obviously community friendliness isn't something that is of value here. Unless that sense of hostility that I'm getting is unfounded. |
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They are not distributions of something only lightly modified, and they are not amalgamations of 3rd party software.. they have a life of their own. As for friendliness, you approached this wrong, I did end up posting responses to your questions.. but doing some initial research would have avoided ruffling feathers here, most undoubtedly garnering you some more friendlier responses. Again, hope some of your answers were answered.. feel free to ask further questions, so long as you're willing to go that extra step. |
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If you want my personal opinion then I would say that DragonFlyBSD is my favorite "BSD" for a desktop.
It has HAMMER file system, with instant recovery (so does FBSD with ZFS some say, but I have never tried FBSD with ZFS), so you don't need to worry about fsck after OS crash. This is (for me) a top feature. Also adding extra disk volumes is very easy (one command and your fs has extra GB - no need to adding stuff to fstab). It has a snapshots system, so you can "go back in time" and reverse some stupid mistake in config files or undo some changes in your home documents (even after trashing it!). DFBSD was not designed for desktops but runs pretty well even on a netbook with small internal disk (20 GB ssd with HAMMER). What I have to like in DFBSD is pkgsrc, which isn't so up-to-date as ports in FreeBSD, but in the end you can make with it your favorite WM/DE with most needed apps (WINE isn't working under DFBSD). The issue I had with most BSDs I have tried on my netbook was suspend. It seems that I just have to live with out that option with is fine with me. For a new comer - I would recommend PC-BSD or DesktopBSD (a better but out-of-date option) or installing FBSD with PC-BSD installer (sysinstall is a mess when you use it first time - good thing is another computer with google or youtube around). FBSD based OSs (as all above) are very close to linux when you compare available apps (i know this is not an OS issue but still counts specially for new comers) and hardware support. Because of pkgsrc and a smaller number of binary packages DragonFlyBSD (NetBSD I suppose also) and other that do not use FBSD ports need more flexibility and adjustment, therefore shouldn't be used as a first BSD "distro" Quote:
"I don't want to spend an hour or two with google and a trylion of web pages, let then do the job" Why don't you install virtualbox or use a 4-8GB usb-stick SD and install one of BSDs and see for your self. After a while linux will be a history for you&your computer Last edited by klanger; 20th July 2010 at 08:06 AM. |
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I was looking for specific opinions. Not what some half baked search engine can give me. Now, it seems to me like you all are trying to tell me to "f" - off?
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Some general background articles about FreeBSD can be found here: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=9294
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I apologize for my previous statements on "lack of community friendliness". I also apologize for not looking this up for myself. I guess that, from now on, I'll at least make an honest attempt at researching some stuff for myself.
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Thanks for the information! |
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Regardless what you elect to do, realitykid, should you decide to try any of the BSDs, you will find the following guidelines very helpful:
http://www.daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=596 |
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@realitykid
cool |
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IMO RealityKid, another big question is which desktop environment you want to use. I prefer BSD over Linux for that reason. With Linux, you only get what they give you. There's an occasional case like with KUbuntu that uses KDE instead of GNOME, but for the most part what you get is what you get. With BSD, you can use packages/ports to get whatever you want: KDE, GNOME, Xfce, or one of the lighter-weight window managers like Fluxbox. Personally, I have been using OpenBSD with GNOME but will likely try Xfce very soon since it is a lot lighter weight. I have heard that KDE is 210 MB, GNOME is 180, and Xfce is only 15, so there is a good speed (and probably security) advantage from using Xfce.
Earlier you asked "...what BSD can do better than Linux or what BSD can do that Linux can't. " The latter half of that statement is an oft-asked but poor question. A better way of asking would be "What does BSD have (as opposed to 'can do') that Linux doesn't?" That answer is, in one word: quality. I remember first getting into Linux when a friend recommended Linux Mint. It was a pretty good distro but when new releases came out it was hindered by innumerable bugs inherited from Ubuntu. That friend that had recommended it to me spent an entire day trying to go back from Mint 8 to 7 because of that instability. There is a lot better quality control on BSD, particularly OpenBSD, since it is constantly audited for bugs and security issues. Also, when there are less bugs, there is usually a higher level of security since bugs can often be exploited. To answer some of your other questions, PC-BSD has a good installer but only comes with KDE. Personally, I can't stand KDE, but I recommend trying at least the big three (KDE, GNOME, Xfce) to see what you like best. OpenBSD's installer is command line but is very quick and straightforward. Depending on your wireless configuration, there are good man pages for OpenBSD that give you commands to get it up and running. If you're stumped, ask in the OpenBSD section and the folks here can ask (most likely) for the output of some commands and will give you some man pages that will point you in the right direction. I and other forum members can also help you get a GUI running if you need. I prefer using packages to install them. There are a few commands that will download everything you need and install it. Just let us know what you think. |
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