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OpenBSD Packages and Ports Installation and upgrading of packages and ports on OpenBSD. |
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There are two "flavors" of midori based on webkit: gtk2 and gtk3.
I'm using xombrero with webkit-gtk3 in 5.9. Before replacing the older version, which is no longer supported, I would review ~/.xsession-errors and check to see that your ~/.config/gtk-2.0 is correctly set up - described here. |
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Anything based on webkit is not going to be "light weight" in my opinion. It will be reasonably functional at rendering, though.
Light weight would be lynx, w3m, or links+ (my prefered). Even dillo or netsurf will have fewer external dependencies. Tim. |
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I carry several browsers: 1) Firefox-esr for news sites, online banking and submitting government forms. Most of these rely on java -script. I set the preferences to delete everything when I close it. 2) Xombrero/webkit - works well on forums/noaa sites and can be sanitized with a few keystrokes. Xombrero is, at this time, broken in current. If it does not get fixed, I will use Midori/webkit in the future. 3) netsurf - no js at this time and sits half way between text browsers and firefox-esr. Noticeably faster than Xombrero/Firefox-esr 3) w3m to view html emails in mutt. Last edited by shep; 21st August 2016 at 08:09 PM. |
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I already pulled a pkg_delete -X in the meantime. But to address your comment: pkg_add offered me to choose between midori-0.5.11 and midori-0.5.11-gtk3. I chose the former and ended up with gtk+3-3.18.7 AND gtk+2-2.24.29 anyway.
At first it coredumped everytime I tried to open a webpage. That is until I went through the preferences pane and discovered the proxy settings where I disabled the default gnome-something-proxy setting, don't remember what it was called exactly. After that I could fully load pages. But rendering was unbelievably slow and the browser still unstable. Mind you, my testbox consists of pretty old hardware (1998-2000), some might even consider it ancient. Also, the whole dbus stuff and whatnot didn't sit very well with me. BTW, the system has 320MB memory and the video card a whopping 4MB. And, yes, I do plan to test Firefox. Nothing like pushing the limits... I might revisit midori at a later date. But on low-end hardware it is not a good choice. Quote:
Code:
quirks-2.197: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:png-1.6.20: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:libiconv-1.14p3: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:gettext-0.19.7: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:libidn-1.32: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:libunistring-0.9.6: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:libpsl-0.7.1p1: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:pcre-8.38: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:wget-1.16.3p0: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:jpeg-9a: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:fltk-1.3.3p0: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:python-2.7.11: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok dillo-3.0.5p0:desktop-file-utils-0.22p0: ok dillo-3.0.5p0: ok Netsurf will be next on my list. I'm curious to see how it compares to dillo. Quote:
My point is, that somewhere along the road sth. went inherently wrong in matters of software design for web browsers. Especially if we consider the fact that basic functionality involves rendering a markup language document and a few images. Let me put it his way: a web browser currently seems to be one the most un-OpenBSD-like pieces of software one might find on an OpenBSD desktop, text-mode variants notwithstanding. I wondered about that too, at first. I'm suspecting it might be partly hardware related (cable/nic). But for testing purposes I can live with it for the time being and look into it at a later date. |
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Links+ has good X support. You can view images, use a mouse, etc. It's not text only (though can be). Using it for daemonforums right now, and always.
Have fun playing with browsers. At least you don't have to build them and all the dependencies! Tim. |
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Note that the W3C is just the tip of the iceberg... There's nothing "inherently wrong" about it: that's making a claim of technological determinism (which are always too reductionist to carry enough truth to be useful, if not outright incorrect), and making a strange claim about the ethics and morality of software design (which even if true doesn't provide us with any ability to take action). A more nuanced understanding would look at the myriads of (often competing) forces, human and non-human, that co-shaped both the technology and each other in producing our modern technologies and realities vis-a-vis the web, noting that where we happen to be now is not in stasis but a snapshot in time with a known past from which to learn and uncertain future which can be informed. If nothing else, it would make for a more interesting (not to mention, more accurate) story. Quote:
By the way, Dillo needs a maintainer. I was the last maintainer, which means it hasn't been touched in a year. On the other hand, it looks like there have been no new releases of Dillo since I last updated it... |
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It looks to me like both midori and netsurf are "heavier" than either firefox or chromium, if heaviness is measured in run dependencies.
Code:
$ cd /usr/ports/www/midori $ make full-run-depends | wc 89 89 1491 $ cd ../mozilla-firefox $ make full-run-depends | wc 42 42 696 $ cd ../chromium/ $ make full-run-depends | wc 57 57 948 $ cd ../dillo $ make full-run-depends | wc 16 16 237 $ cd ../netsurf/ $ make full-run-depends | wc 64 76 1185 $ |
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The text browser elinks has the potential to support javascript. I could never get it to do much with js under Linux, but that may be my incompetence. I haven't tried it under OpenBSD but thought I'd mention it since javascript was being mentioned. Maybe someone here has experience with that.
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To illustrate where I'm coming from: my testbox may be pretty low end but it makes things more interesting. Testing and playing with X11 my first impulse was to install fluxbox ('ve used it before). It was ok but a bit naff, really. Then I reminded myself there are already two WMs in base, why not use those? Fvwm's default look may be a bit dated but I quickly found a way to make it look quite spiffy (quick search for fvwmrc, highly configurable, no need for extra wm packages = a plus on a low end machine). Being quite pleased with it the next step was gui browser. Midori was a bit of a random choice, the install log nothing short of a shock and the rest is history. Quote:
Oh, please say it isn't so! Despite its obvious shortcomings it's still the best performing candidate. It even felt minimally faster than links+. Altough the latter's key-based navigation is fantastic. If anyone's interested today's results: Netsurf: Code:
quirks-2.197: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libiconv-1.14p3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:gettext-0.19.7: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libutf8proc-1.1.6p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok netsurf-3.3p1:python-2.7.11: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:pcre-8.38: ok netsurf-3.3p1:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:desktop-file-utils-0.22p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:hicolor-icon-theme-0.15: ok netsurf-3.3p1:atk-2.18.0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:jasper-1.900.1p4: ok netsurf-3.3p1:png-1.6.20: ok netsurf-3.3p1:xz-5.2.2p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libxml-2.9.3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:shared-mime-info-1.5: ok netsurf-3.3p1:jpeg-9a: ok netsurf-3.3p1:tiff-4.0.6p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:gdk-pixbuf-2.32.3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:gtk-update-icon-cache-3.18.7: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libcroco-0.6.11: ok netsurf-3.3p1:graphite2-1.3.5: ok netsurf-3.3p1:lzo2-2.09: ok netsurf-3.3p1:cairo-1.14.6: ok netsurf-3.3p1:harfbuzz-1.1.3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:pango-1.38.1: ok netsurf-3.3p1:librsvg-2.40.13: ok netsurf-3.3p1:gnome-icon-theme-3.12.0p3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:gnome-icon-theme-symbolic-3.12.0p2: ok netsurf-3.3p1:gtk+2-2.24.29: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libparserutils-0.2.1p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:hubbub-0.3.1p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libnsutils-0.0.1p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:nghttp2-1.6.0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libidn-1.32: ok netsurf-3.3p1:curl-7.47.0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:giflib-5.1.2: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libwebp-0.4.4: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libwapcaplet-0.2.2p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libcss-0.5.0p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libnsbmp-0.1.3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libnsgif-0.1.3: ok netsurf-3.3p1:libdom-0.1.2p0: ok netsurf-3.3p1: ok Links+: Code:
quirks-2.197: ok Ambiguous: choose package for links+ a 0: <None> 1: links+-2.12p0 2: links+-2.12p0-no_x11 Your choice: 1 links+-2.12p0:libiconv-1.14p3: ok links+-2.12p0:gettext-0.19.7: ok links+-2.12p0:xz-5.2.2p0: ok links+-2.12p0:jpeg-9a: ok links+-2.12p0:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok links+-2.12p0:png-1.6.20: ok links+-2.12p0:tiff-4.0.6p0: ok links+-2.12p0:libxml-2.9.3: ok links+-2.12p0:pcre-8.38: ok links+-2.12p0:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok links+-2.12p0:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok links+-2.12p0:python-2.7.11: ok links+-2.12p0:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok links+-2.12p0:libcroco-0.6.11: ok links+-2.12p0:lzo2-2.09: ok links+-2.12p0:cairo-1.14.6: ok links+-2.12p0:graphite2-1.3.5: ok links+-2.12p0:harfbuzz-1.1.3: ok links+-2.12p0:pango-1.38.1: ok links+-2.12p0:shared-mime-info-1.5: ok links+-2.12p0:jasper-1.900.1p4: ok links+-2.12p0:gdk-pixbuf-2.32.3: ok links+-2.12p0:librsvg-2.40.13: ok links+-2.12p0: ok Last candidate for today, Conkeror: Code:
quirks-2.197: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:nspr-4.11: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:nss-3.21.1: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gcc-libs-4.9.3p3: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libiconv-1.14p3: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gettext-0.19.7: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:pcre-8.38: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:python-2.7.11: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:xz-5.2.2p0: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libxml-2.9.3: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:shared-mime-info-1.5: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:jasper-1.900.1p4: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:png-1.6.20: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:jpeg-9a: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:tiff-4.0.6p0: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gdk-pixbuf-2.32.3: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:hicolor-icon-theme-0.15: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gtk-update-icon-cache-3.18.7: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libcroco-0.6.11: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:graphite2-1.3.5: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:lzo2-2.09: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:cairo-1.14.6: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:harfbuzz-1.1.3: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:pango-1.38.1: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:librsvg-2.40.13: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gnome-icon-theme-3.12.0p3: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gnome-icon-theme-symbolic-3.12.0p2: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:atk-2.18.0: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gtk+2-2.24.29: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:desktop-file-utils-0.22p0: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:mozilla-dicts-en-GB-1.3p1: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:hunspell-1.3.2p2: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:xulrunner-24.8.0p10: ok conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3: ok Next up Xombrero: BTW, what's the easiest way to take a screenshot? Any hints welcome. |
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# pkg_add scrot |
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I am missing the point it seems? You're posting lists of dependencies and citing larger numbers of those as some kind of problem?
You mentioned ebay - if you want to browse 'shopping sites' or anything with any kind of modern content - you need a modern browser. Modern browsers are heavyweight because functionality and features come at a price. You don't get modern functionality and features from a few MBs of "lightweight" browser with a handful of dependencies. |
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Well you did miss the 350MB of RAM available which is rather limiting. Although the number of dependencies isn't really relevant to runtime memory consumption, it's something to measure.
Tim. |
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And as I'd posted above, midori has the largest fleet of run dependencies among the browsers that had been discussed to that point, including more than both the dreaded Firefox and Chromium behemoths.
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I can understand the frustrations expressed by fvgit. It's true, there are applications which legitimately require many of these things ... it's not 1996 anymore and all that. But what happens is, because of those the adoption gets so widespread that their availability is assumed, and other applications get dragged into it. For example, there is no way I should need broadband and a quad-core to go check my bank balance, and move money from my checking account to credit card. Sledgehammer, meet peanut. Yet that is exactly the point we're at the cusp of imminently. As someone who doesn't care much about youtube and eBay, it frustrates me too. I realize that resistance is largely futile, in the long run.
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For better or worse, applications follow whatever hardware configuration developers use. Deviate too far from this norm, & the problems discussed in this thread will emerge.
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