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Old 28th November 2014
J65nko J65nko is offline
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Default Debian Forked Over Systemd

From http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/1...d-over-systemd

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The so called "Veteran Unix Admin" collective has announced that the fork of Debian will proceed as a result of the recent systemd controversy. The reasons put forward are not just technical; included is a letter of endorsement by Debian Developer Roger Leigh mentioning that "people rely on Debian for their jobs and businesses, their research and their hobbies. It's not a playground for such radical experimentation." The fork is called "Devuan," pronounced "DevOne." The official website has more information.
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Old 28th November 2014
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Great news! I think Debian 7 is an outstanding distro. Good to hear about the Devuan project. I wish them well.
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Old 28th November 2014
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Not sure if this is something like, Wow, several Debian developers quit to work on this or more like, Hey, let's do something based on Debian. I think this might be one of those slashdot clickbait things.

Also disconcerting is that apparently Jordan Hubbard was saying that FreeBSD should adopt something like systemd. How much like systemd is the question, I guess. (From the slideshow)

http://www.slideshare.net/iXsystems/...-next-10-years
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Old 29th November 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
Not sure if this is something like, Wow, several Debian developers quit to work on this or more like, Hey, let's do something based on Debian. I think this might be one of those slashdot clickbait things.

Also disconcerting is that apparently Jordan Hubbard was saying that FreeBSD should adopt something like systemd. How much like systemd is the question, I guess. (From the slideshow)

http://www.slideshare.net/iXsystems/...-next-10-years
Yeah it could be a clickbait story, but, it seems there is discord in the Debian camp, some infighting over systemd. This is likely a real thing.
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Old 29th November 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
Also disconcerting is that apparently Jordan Hubbard was saying that FreeBSD should adopt something like systemd.
With all due respect I am not user how Jordan Hubbard is important these days for FreeBSD but I am 100% sure that his opinion is irrelevant for DragonFly, NetBSD, and OpenBSD. Enough said.


By the way I am happy to see that Debian people have common sense.
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Old 29th November 2014
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Among the developers, the infighting concerns making systemd default or optional. (And how long support will continue for options other than systemd.) The people in control have decided to adopt systemd. (Majority vote.) There may be a few dissenters, but they have not been overly vocal. Most complaints about the new development direction are coming from a small number of users. This fork project is currently a protest. Time will tell if it grows into a rebellion. Whether or not a rebellion would succeed ...? More time and more watching.

* The view of a former Debian user.
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Old 29th November 2014
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Yeah sacerdos_daemonis (that's too long, may I call you sacerdos?), that's the take I'm getting from it too. The headline makes it seem like half the Debian developers resigned to do this, but that's what headlines do.

As for me, most of my BSD involvement is with FreeBSD--from what I get from Oko's posts, most of his is with Open, so I guess for him (and many others here), it matters almost as little as what Debian does.
Hrrm, I think that came out wrong--what I mean is that apparently most of you will not be affected personally or professionally.
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Old 29th November 2014
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True. It does not affect me at all, but I still interact with a few Debian users. Thus I followed the developments a little. Personally, given the project's stated goals, I do not think it is viable, but best of luck to them.

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Old 29th November 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
As for me, most of my BSD involvement is with FreeBSD--from what I get from Oko's posts, most of his is with Open, so I guess for him (and many others here), it matters almost as little as what Debian does.
I migrated all file servers from Red Hat to combination of vanilla FreeBSD and FreeNAS at work OpenBSD is my OS of choice but I tend to use right tools for the job. Computing nodes still run Red Hat because of MATLAB and some or our own non-portable proprietary code . We use Springdale Linux clone of Red Hat. I already did detailed evaluation of Red Hat 7.0 and systemd for that matter. The decision is that we are sticking with branch 6 until the end of its life 2020. If MathWork release MATLAB for FreeBSD we are done with Linux. My first hope is to still be alive in 2020. I am not really concern with the replacement of Red Hat 6 branch right now.


OpenBSD runs network infrastructure in our Lab. If HAMMER 2 gets ported to OpenBSD which is really really long shoot due to technical obstacles I will drop FreeBSD. The other option is to drop FreeBSD if DragonFly gets more developers who will fix basic infrastructure. Bringing Jails in par with FreeBSD on DragonFly would be nice too. DragonFly is really nice system but lacks developers.

Last edited by Oko; 29th November 2014 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 29th November 2014
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Also in the arena is the KFreeBSD project which seems to have been making under the radar progress. They ZFS working, jails and about 85% of the Debian packages available.
Systemd/udev presents the sames issue to their project.

Should the Linux kernel limit itself to systemd/udev in the future, there is an alternative kernel available that will have to conform to the FreeBSD init structure.
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Old 30th November 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottro View Post
Also disconcerting is that apparently Jordan Hubbard was saying that FreeBSD should adopt something like systemd. How much like systemd is the question, I guess. (From the slideshow)

http://www.slideshare.net/iXsystems/...-next-10-years
Just as illustration how much various BSDs have diverged from each other. In above presentation Jordan Hubbard is daydreaming about plists for FreeBSD this is an elegant explanation of OpenBSD developer Ingo Schwarze explaining why is that terrible idea from the security, simplicity, and correctness point of view.
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