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Old 2nd May 2015
shep shep is offline
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Default your browser choice in 5.7?

I am not saying that Firefox is a bad browser. It just seems that this particular version does not run well in OpenBSD. I use Iceweasel 31.6 in Debian without issues and per Oko the later releases run fine. I have increased my limits in /etc/login.conf and my ~/.profile to no avail. I would use 35.0.1 but previously M:tier has only provided security updates for Firefox-esr. Firefox 38 will also be an extended support release and I suspect it will be released prior to OpenBSD 5.8. Previously, M:tier replaced FF-esr-24 with FF-31 and I suspect FF-esr-38 will replace FF-esr-31

I liked xxxterm/xombrero but there were problems with the webkit rendering engine. These problems appear mostly fixed in 5.7. Although I, just had a core dump with xombrero trying to playback a news video on CNN.com.

Last edited by ocicat; 4th May 2015 at 04:34 PM. Reason: edited thread title...
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Old 2nd May 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep View Post
I am not saying that Firefox is a bad browser. It just seems that this particular version does not run well in OpenBSD.
Agreed. Firefox is my browser of choice on other OSs, but, I've had it crash on me too many times on OpenBSD. Chromium meets my needs on OpenBSD. I installed the Youtube extension on Chromium 40.0 and it plays youtube videos like a champ with no hiccups. Love it.
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Old 3rd May 2015
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I had thought about porting webkitfltk over. After poking around Fifth browser development status I decided that I should wait, or first contribute to the project itself.
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Old 3rd May 2015
bsd-keith bsd-keith is offline
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Being a relative newcomer to OpenBSD, I was getting a lot of crashing from FireFox 31 on OBSD 5.6 & had hoped it was just that release of FF, as it was also a bit buggy on Linux.

However, I am getting the same problems with FF 35 on OBSD 5.7, so I think I will try Chromium as hitest does not seem to be getting problems with it.

Out of interest, does anyone know if it is because of W^X that causes FF to crash?
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Old 3rd May 2015
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsd-keith View Post
Out of interest, does anyone know if it is because of W^X that causes FF to crash?
No, Firefox crashes are most commonly caused by the memory limits of the default login class. Search the misc@ archives for discussions on login.conf(5) tweaks for solution. i386 systems can be more fussy due to the lower real memory limits of the architecture. amd64 systems aren't as restricted.
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Old 3rd May 2015
shep shep is offline
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I am seeing more stability after removing the Carbon Dark theme. I had 3 tabs open (NYTimes x2 and CNN) in an i386 without a core dump.

@ocicat. I could not find any recommendations on memory limits for Firefox. My i386 systems are physically limited to 2GB of memory and I have 4GB installed in my amd64 systems. For FF use with html5 videos or say 4 tabs when comparison shopping could you make recommendations regarding the amount of physical memory and memory limits?
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Old 3rd May 2015
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I don't want to lead off-topic, but with all the discussion of FF problems, what about SeaMonkey?
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Old 3rd May 2015
bsd-keith bsd-keith is offline
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I did try Seamonkey on 5.6, which was better, but still crashed quite a bit, that was why I was wondering if it was something specific to OpenBSD, those both being Mozilla based.browsers.

Edit:Update >> I'm getting much better stability now by using Chromium instead of Firefox.
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Last edited by bsd-keith; 5th May 2015 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 3rd May 2015
shep shep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsd-keith View Post
I did try Seamonkey on 5.6, which was better, but still crashed quite a bit, that was why I was wondering if it was something specific to OpenBSD, those both being Mozilla based.browsers.
I think that is part of it; both use the Gecko Rendering engine. Chromium Xombrero, Midori and others use webkit. Webkit has gone from gtk2 -> gtk3 -> gtk4 with some teething problems.

I presently enamored with Xombrero (webkit/gtk3) in 5.7. On the same sites/same computer, it seems to render content much faster. It is heavily keyboard oriented and I made a single page *.pdf of the Key bindings that I'm glad to share.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Xombrero_commands.pdf (3.9 KB, 98 views)

Last edited by shep; 3rd May 2015 at 08:25 PM. Reason: added pdf of xombrero key bindings
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Old 3rd May 2015
TronDD TronDD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep View Post
I could not find any recommendations on memory limits for Firefox. My i386 systems are physically limited to 2GB of memory and I have 4GB installed in my amd64 systems.
For a desktop system, I set my memory limits to something like 75% of physical memory. Leaves enough so that if something does run away, it won't take out the OS. If FF needs more than 3G of memory, it deserves to crash.

Tim.
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Old 3rd May 2015
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On i386 with little memory Opera-12.16 via Linux emulation is still the best browser by a mile. On amd64 I had terible experience with FF. It was crashing all the time even that I have 16GB of physical memory and removed the limits from /etc/login.conf. I noticed that it had something to do with scripts and automatics DNS fetching. On 5.7 FF 35.0.1 is rock stable for me without any fiddling with /etc/login.conf or anything else. Unfortunately browser situation is becoming really alarming unless somebody really pushes netsurf. I would not comment anything based of webkit as it is not useful to me in any shape or form. We are at the point that there is not a single decent browser for UNIX.
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Old 3rd May 2015
TronDD TronDD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
We are at the point that there is not a single decent browser for UNIX.
Agreed. I'm not sure there is a decent web browser, period.

I use Links+ when I can. It's pretty much required on my VM that only get's 1G of RAM. And on my Zaurus which has way less. It doesn't support javascript or anything fancy, though. I modified it to use libressl's libtls. Works well for the simple things like this site.

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Old 3rd May 2015
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The file /etc/login.conf has changed since 5.7 and so far I had no need to play with it to avoid Firefox crashes. I haven't tried with (too) many tabs yet.
Code:
$ diff -u login.conf5.6.ori login.conf5.7.ori
--- login.conf5.6.ori	Fri Aug  8 08:05:50 2014
+++ login.conf5.7.ori	Sun Mar  8 17:51:15 2015
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-# $OpenBSD: login.conf,v 1.2 2014/04/22 11:03:40 reyk Exp $
+# $OpenBSD: login.conf,v 1.4 2015/02/17 10:18:36 sthen Exp $
 
 #
 # Sample login.conf file.  See login.conf(5) for details.
@@ -70,10 +70,10 @@
 # Staff have fewer restrictions and can login even when nologins are set.
 #
 staff:\
-	:datasize-cur=512M:\
+	:datasize-cur=1536M:\
 	:datasize-max=infinity:\
 	:maxproc-max=512:\
-	:maxproc-cur=128:\
+	:maxproc-cur=256:\
 	:ignorenologin:\
 	:requirehome@:\
 	:tc=default:
@@ -90,5 +90,9 @@
 # Override resource limits for certain daemons started by rc.d(8)
 #
 bgpd:\
+	:openfiles-cur=512:\
+	:tc=daemon:
+
+unbound:\
 	:openfiles-cur=512:\
 	:tc=daemon:
Iridium, another WebKit based browser (sorry Oko), just made it to the ports:
https://iridiumbrowser.de/
http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cv...s/www/iridium/
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Old 3rd May 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
On i386 with little memory Opera-12.16 via Linux emulation is still the best browser by a mile. On amd64 I had terible experience with FF. It was crashing all the time even that I have 16GB of physical memory and removed the limits from /etc/login.conf. I noticed that it had something to do with scripts and automatics DNS fetching. On 5.7 FF 35.0.1 is rock stable for me without any fiddling with /etc/login.conf or anything else. Unfortunately browser situation is becoming really alarming unless somebody really pushes netsurf. I would not comment anything based of webkit as it is not useful to me in any shape or form. We are at the point that there is not a single decent browser for UNIX.
I like the direction netsurf is going. It even has a framebuffer build option. Its far from being mature. It would be nice to build a somewhat complete browser that didn't need Qt or GTK.
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Old 3rd May 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep View Post
.

I am not sure it is entirely due to the browsers. I normally use FF and do not save any history or cookies. I set Xombrero to not save the history but cookies have to be manually deleted.

An eye opener for me was from my start page, the NYTimes + this site, I end up with more cookies than I can count. It appears that a particular pattern of cookies is often used to track users. From Xombrero wiki:
I run AdBlock Pro, HTTPS Everywhere (from the EFF) and Ghostly to basically block all of those trackers. It's astonishing to me how many different trackers I see on some commercial websites.
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Old 4th May 2015
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Hey, folks. Let's try to keep this particular thread on its original topic. It's probably already enough trouble for ocicat to separate the BrowserWars conversation, and the tracking methods conversations into distinct threads. Interesting, but they're definitely beyond the thread's original intended scope.
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Old 4th May 2015
jb_daefo jb_daefo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
On i386 with little memory Opera-12.16 via Linux emulation is still the best browser by a mile. On amd64 I had terible experience with FF. It was crashing all the time even that I have 16GB of physical memory and removed the limits from /etc/login.conf. I noticed that it had something to do with scripts and automatics DNS fetching. On 5.7 FF 35.0.1 is rock stable for me without any fiddling with /etc/login.conf or anything else. Unfortunately browser situation is becoming really alarming unless somebody really pushes netsurf. I would not comment anything based of webkit as it is not useful to me in any shape or form. We are at the point that there is not a single decent browser for UNIX.
A big thank you to whatever OpenBSD user who may package the Opera-12.16 as an entirely chrooted jail, so that its dynamic libraries are always never-need-updating, and can be securely installed as a package so that when it goes away officially upstream, and does not reappear, a browser-of-last-resort (something like a 3rd class between text browsers and GUI browsers) can always be installed.
One could then, maybe, Xen install OpenBSD and then the Opera-legacy package, maybe in other operating systems and have usable browser features again.
I did half of that on another OS, but just as an install, and it would probably break in the near term across system upgrades... or maybe one or two files would fix that
instance(s)...

Just a wishful non-suggestion (imagining most people don't have time for such a
project ... ) in case one or two do indeed have the time. Not an OpenBSD user here and inexperienced with chroot and jails except for the half-jail I hastily setup...
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Old 4th May 2015
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Discussion on browser choices on OpenBSD 5.7 has been separated from its parent thread:

http://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=9091

We find that most members spend most of their time mining the archives for past content. To simplify the task, please stay on the topic specified in the thread's initial post. We encourage further discussion & side discussion, but please do so in new threads.

Members are at different levels of technical understanding. Given that English is not the first language of many, keeping discussion on the same subject as the initial post in the thread helps with clarity. Meandering comments don't help.
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Old 4th May 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_daefo View Post
A big thank you to whatever OpenBSD user who may package the Opera-12.16 as an entirely chrooted jail, so that its dynamic libraries are always never-need-updating, and can be securely installed as a package so that when it goes away officially upstream, and does not reappear, a browser-of-last-resort (something like a 3rd class between text browsers and GUI browsers) can always be installed.
OpenBSD has no Jails
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_daefo View Post
One could then, maybe, Xen install OpenBSD and then the Opera-legacy package,
OpenBSD doesn't have support for Xen DomU

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_daefo View Post
maybe in other operating systems and have usable browser features again.
My FF 35.0.1 is more stable on OpenBSD 5.7 than on Red Hat 6.6.
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Old 4th May 2015
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Since jb_daefo was asking about Opera:
  • The Opera browser is a closed-source, commercial program product of Opera Software ASA ("Opera Software").
  • The port of Opera on OpenBSD -- www/opera -- merely installs the free Linux binary directly from Opera Software's public distribution servers, along with emulation dependencies. It is not a "build" from source code.
  • Opera Software's license prohibits redistribution of their otherwise freely available binaries, which is why this is not available as a package.
  • Linux binaries on OpenBSD require compat_linux(8) emulation, which is why the Opera port is available only on the i386 architecture.

Last edited by jggimi; 4th May 2015 at 06:58 PM. Reason: clarity
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