DaemonForums  

Go Back   DaemonForums > Miscellaneous > General Hardware

General Hardware General hardware related questions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
jkl jkl is offline
dat guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 90
Default Are there any recent SPARC laptops?

As Oracle is obviously still developing SPARCs, I wonder if there are any current manufacturers of SPARC-based laptops. I just feel like I could want one for playing with it.
Reply With Quote
  #2   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
Oko Oko is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kosovo, Serbia
Posts: 1,087
Default

No! The only manufacturer of sparc based laptops was Cuipertino based Tedpole which went out of business 2013

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadpole_Computer

They last spark based laptop has SMRP of close to $3000 and was working so hot that there was no way you could keep it on the lap.

You are beating a dead horse. The only current architectures are amd64, mips64 and arm32/64.
Reply With Quote
  #3   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
jkl jkl is offline
dat guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 90
Default

How is MIPS64 (latest release: v6, 2014) more "current" than SPARC (latest release: Sonoma, 2016)?

The "amd64" CISC architecture is technically inferior to RISC, it always was. I agree with you that arm64 is a quite common architecture, but, being optimized for "power-saving", I would never use an ARM for real work. Sorry, but I don't want my real machine to work like my smartphone.
Reply With Quote
  #4   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
Oko Oko is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kosovo, Serbia
Posts: 1,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkl View Post
How is MIPS64 (latest release: v6, 2014) more "current" than SPARC (latest release: Sonoma, 2016)?

The "amd64" CISC architecture is technically inferior to RISC, it always was. I agree with you that arm64 is a quite common architecture, but, being optimized for "power-saving", I would never use an ARM for real work. Sorry, but I don't want my real machine to work like my smartphone.
RISC technically is superior to CISC and will dominate the world! I heard somebody else saying that before. His name is Andrew Tanenbaum. He said that in early 90s and it turns out that in practical terms he was wrong. Cheap Inter crap wiped out all those nice Alpha, SGI, and Sparc64 machines I liked so much.

We are not talking about the same kind mips64. Mips64 is very common networking hardware. OpenBSD has rudimentary support for such hardware via Octeon port. Mips64 on the workstations is dead. I didn't say arm64 is usable for anything yet. I am just saying that it is alive architecture and will flourish sooner or later. OpenBSD has no support yet for such hardware but there are few guys who are porting it over from Bitrig. amd64 is more or less what people who use "real" computers use these days. Sparc64 is dead. You will have to point a gun to Oracle sales rep before they offer you sparc64 hardware. Before Oracle acquisition Sun hold 85% of market share for such hardware. Fujitsu had 15%. I would be curious about the prices for these

http://www.fujitsu.com/global/produc...rise/products/


I can get for about 12K here in good old U.S. of A. 4x16 Core Intel machine with 1.5 TB of ECC RAM. In any case even hard core OpenBSD hackers from what I can tell don't hack anymore on sparc64. In the past sparc64 was the platform where OpenBSD development was largely taking the place.
Reply With Quote
  #5   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
e1-531g e1-531g is offline
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkl View Post
I agree with you that arm64 is a quite common architecture, but, being optimized for "power-saving", I would never use an ARM for real work.
If you mean by arm64 just instruction set, it is just instruction set. There are various electronics implementations of it done by a few companies. For example Cavium's processor is being designed for (micro)servers. Nvidia have quite powerful cores developed by itself.
Probably ARM ecosystem's patent portfolio is power-saving focused, but it does not mean that ARM will always be slower.
You should also note that ARMv8/AArch64 is quite young.
Gnu/Linux distributions have partial from about late 2014/early 2015. Partial.
FreeBSD is going to have support in 11 release, but heavily tested against only one processor family - Cavium.
***
There are also IBM Power v8 processors. Phoronix pointed out in February, that there will be Talos Secure Workstation launched.

Last edited by e1-531g; 10th March 2016 at 10:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
Oko Oko is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kosovo, Serbia
Posts: 1,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1-531g View Post
There are also IBM Power v8 processors.
I am guessing that is the open hardware right? Could you post the link to the documentation?
Reply With Quote
  #7   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
jkl jkl is offline
dat guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 90
Default

According to the current discussion about dropping VAX support, Theo stated that SPARC64 is actively supported and will remain so for the foreseeable future, unlike SPARC "32" which, to which I agree, is deprecated hardware.

I never cared about "what people use"; if I did, I probably would never have used anything but Windows on my workstation machines. (Sorry - I'm not old enough for actively having lived through the 80s/early 90s when the multitude of good operating systems was actually fascinating.) I just thought a RISC machine would make sense on a desktop and, as ARM is not made for real work, there must be a usable workstation RISC chip and I thought SPARC would be the most mature one...?

Why does Oracle continue to develop new SPARCs then?
Reply With Quote
  #8   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
Oko Oko is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kosovo, Serbia
Posts: 1,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkl View Post
According to the current discussion about dropping VAX support, Theo stated that SPARC64 is actively supported and will remain so for the foreseeable future, unlike SPARC "32" which, to which I agree, is deprecated hardware.

I never cared about "what people use"; if I did, I probably would never have used anything but Windows on my workstation machines. (Sorry - I'm not old enough for actively having lived through the 80s/early 90s when the multitude of good operating systems was actually fascinating.) I just thought a RISC machine would make sense on a desktop and, as ARM is not made for real work, there must be a usable workstation RISC chip and I thought SPARC would be the most mature one...?

Why does Oracle continue to develop new SPARCs then?
sparc64 hardware is relatively easy to find and I am sure sparc64 port is not going anywhere in the near future. The ports likely to follow VAX are armish, socppc, sparc (this is old 32-bit Sun's sparc from mid 80s).

Is Oracle actively releasing documentation for their latest Sparc chips? If not I doubt OpenBSD sparc64 port will ever run on those new Oracle machines.

Listen I answered the question but you don't like my answer. Lets pretend that I have never answered the question and please post the dmesg when you buy that new Sparc laptop.

Best regards,
OKO

Last edited by Oko; 10th March 2016 at 11:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th March 2016
jkl jkl is offline
dat guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
Is Oracle actively releasing documentation for their latest Sparc chips?
Seems so:
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/se...15-2868130.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oko View Post
Listen I answer the question and but you don't like my answer.
Let's just say I had hoped for a "here's a link to the biggest SPARC computers online shop", not a "Just use AMD64/ARM64!". Rest assured that I do value your input though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1-531g View Post
You should also note that ARMv8/AArch64 is quite young.
As in: not mature enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1-531g View Post
There are also IBM Power v8 processors. Phoronix pointed out in February, that there will be Talos Secure Workstation launched.
I'll investigate.
-e- Ah. (And I didn't even know that IBM is still a processor company.)
Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2016
e1-531g e1-531g is offline
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 293
Default

Actually I haven't read much about Power8 powered computers. I just wanted to note this relatively new information.
Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2016
gpatrick gpatrick is offline
Package Pilot
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 192
Default

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1-531g View Post
There are also IBM Power v8 processors.
I am guessing that is the open hardware right? Could you post the link to the documentation?
http://openpowerfoundation.org/
https://www.power.org/
Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2016
e1-531g e1-531g is offline
Spam Deminer
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 293
Default

http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=ne...os-Crowdsupply
https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-c...re-workstation

Quote:
$4,100 USD for the ATX motherboard, a heatsink, and other basic motherboard accessories [..] The CPU isn't included. POWER8 CPUs start out at $1,135 USD for the eight-core 130 Watt model or up to $3,350 USD for the 12-core 190 Watt CPU.
Quote:
For $18,000 USD they are offering the complete Talos Workstation as a 12-core POWER8 CPU, 256GB of DDR3 ECC RAM, AMD FirePro or NVIDIA Tesla graphics, SAS disks for storage, and a pre-installed copy of Debian or CentOS.
12-cores means physical cores. There are 96 logical cores visible by the system.
__________________
Signature: Furthermore, I consider that systemd must be destroyed.
Based on Latin oratorical phrase
Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2016
jkl jkl is offline
dat guy
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 90
Default

Awesome. Time to save some money...
Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2016
fvgit's Avatar
fvgit fvgit is offline
Fdisk Soldier
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: perl -MMIME::Base64 -le 'print decode_base64("SGVyZSBiZSBkcmFnb25zC")'
Posts: 69
Default

Nice. Enough horsepower for the latest and greatest webbrowsers. Now where exactly did I hide my piggybank..?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SPARC processor documentation LeFrettchen General Hardware 1 30th April 2015 10:15 PM
Sparc 20 won't boot after Net BSD 4.1 install rogue0912 NetBSD Installation and Upgrading 1 12th September 2011 09:01 AM
Sparc assembly anyone? Randux Programming 4 24th June 2011 07:10 AM
sparc ultra 5 ok== files and args ??? philo_neo71 FreeBSD Installation and Upgrading 2 21st September 2009 03:43 AM
errror install nebsd sparc ultra5 philo_neo71 NetBSD General 3 21st July 2009 06:35 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content copyright © 2007-2010, the authors
Daemon image copyright ©1988, Marshall Kirk McKusick