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Old 21st August 2016
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Default pkg_add $WEBBROWSER: have dependencies gone wild?

From the all-I-wanted-was-a-browser-but-what-I-got-instead-was-the-whole-bloody-ports-tree department.

The starting point was a 'clean' system 5.9-RELEASE with 1 pkg and 3 dependencies installed:
quirks-2.197
libiconv-1.14p3
gettext-0.19.7
fetchmail-6.3.26p0

"Obviously there are going to be a few dependencies" I said to myself calmly typing 'pkg_add midori'. Like Jon Snow, I knew nothing...

Code:
Aug 21 01:48:59 testbox pkg_add: Added pcre-8.38
Aug 21 01:49:20 testbox pkg_add: Added bzip2-1.0.6p7
Aug 21 01:49:24 testbox pkg_add: Added libffi-3.2.1p0
Aug 21 01:55:49 testbox pkg_add: Added python-2.7.11
Aug 21 01:55:53 testbox pkg_add: Added libelf-0.8.13p3
Aug 21 01:59:18 testbox pkg_add: Added glib2-2.46.2p0
Aug 21 01:59:42 testbox pkg_add: Added xz-5.2.2p0
Aug 21 02:00:42 testbox pkg_add: Added libxml-2.9.3
Aug 21 02:02:34 testbox pkg_add: Added shared-mime-info-1.5
Aug 21 02:02:41 testbox pkg_add: Added png-1.6.20
Aug 21 02:02:53 testbox pkg_add: Added jpeg-9a
Aug 21 02:03:36 testbox pkg_add: Added tiff-4.0.6p0
Aug 21 02:03:45 testbox pkg_add: Added jasper-1.900.1p4
Aug 21 02:04:26 testbox pkg_add: Added gdk-pixbuf-2.32.3
Aug 21 02:04:47 testbox pkg_add: Added hicolor-icon-theme-0.15
Aug 21 02:04:51 testbox pkg_add: Added gtk-update-icon-cache-3.18.7
Aug 21 02:04:55 testbox pkg_add: Added desktop-file-utils-0.22p0
Aug 21 02:05:31 testbox groupadd[3184]: new group added: name=_dbus, gid=572
Aug 21 02:05:31 testbox useradd[10231]: new user added: name=_dbus, uid=572, gid=572, home=/nonexistent, shell=/sbin/nologin
Aug 21 02:05:35 testbox pkg_add: Added dbus-1.10.6v0
Aug 21 02:05:46 testbox pkg_add: Added dconf-0.24.0p1
Aug 21 02:06:08 testbox pkg_add: Added gsettings-desktop-schemas-3.18.1
Aug 21 02:06:33 testbox pkg_add: Added libtasn1-4.7
Aug 21 02:06:51 testbox pkg_add: Added p11-kit-0.22.1p1
Aug 21 02:07:04 testbox pkg_add: Added gmp-5.0.2p3
Aug 21 02:07:19 testbox pkg_add: Added libnettle-3.2
Aug 21 02:09:33 testbox pkg_add: Added gnutls-3.3.21
Aug 21 02:09:39 testbox pkg_add: Added libproxy-0.4.12p0
Aug 21 02:09:54 testbox pkg_add: Added glib2-networking-2.46.1
Aug 21 02:10:33 testbox pkg_add: Added libsoup-2.52.2
Aug 21 02:11:30 testbox pkg_add: Added lzo2-2.09
Aug 21 02:12:00 testbox pkg_add: Added cairo-1.14.6
Aug 21 02:12:04 testbox pkg_add: Added graphite2-1.3.5
Aug 21 02:12:28 testbox pkg_add: Added harfbuzz-1.1.3
Aug 21 02:12:57 testbox pkg_add: Added pango-1.38.1
Aug 21 02:13:16 testbox pkg_add: Added libogg-1.3.2p0
Aug 21 02:13:20 testbox pkg_add: Added tremor-20120410p1
Aug 21 02:13:30 testbox pkg_add: Added libtheora-1.1.1p3
Aug 21 02:13:55 testbox pkg_add: Added libvorbis-1.3.5
Aug 21 02:14:00 testbox pkg_add: Added cdparanoia-3.a9.8p3
Aug 21 02:15:46 testbox pkg_add: Added gstreamer1-1.6.3
Aug 21 02:16:04 testbox pkg_add: Added orc-0.4.24
Aug 21 02:16:31 testbox pkg_add: Added dbus-daemon-launch-helper-1.10.6
Aug 21 02:16:38 testbox pkg_add: Added gdbm-1.11p0
Aug 21 02:16:42 testbox pkg_add: Added libdaemon-0.14p1
Aug 21 02:17:05 testbox groupadd[21882]: new group added: name=_avahi, gid=629
Aug 21 02:17:06 testbox useradd[23310]: new user added: name=_avahi, uid=629, gid=629, home=/var/empty, shell=/sbin/nologin
Aug 21 02:17:14 testbox pkg_add: Added avahi-0.6.31p23
Aug 21 02:17:50 testbox pkg_add: Added libgpg-error-1.21
Aug 21 02:18:00 testbox pkg_add: Added libgcrypt-1.6.5
Aug 21 02:18:04 testbox pkg_add: Added libassuan-2.1.1
Aug 21 02:18:11 testbox pkg_add: Added libksba-1.3.3
Aug 21 02:18:18 testbox pkg_add: Added libusb1-1.0.20
Aug 21 02:18:20 testbox pkg_add: Added libusb-compat-0.1.5p0
Aug 21 02:18:47 testbox pkg_add: Added libsecret-0.18.4
Aug 21 02:18:51 testbox pkg_add: Added pinentry-0.9.6p3
Aug 21 02:18:54 testbox pkg_add: Added npth-1.2
Aug 21 02:19:29 testbox pkg_add: Added gnupg-2.1.9
Aug 21 02:20:18 testbox pkg_add: Added libcroco-0.6.11
Aug 21 02:20:33 testbox pkg_add: Added librsvg-2.40.13
Aug 21 02:26:47 testbox pkg_add: Added adwaita-icon-theme-3.18.0
Aug 21 02:27:23 testbox pkg_add: Added at-spi2-core-2.18.3
Aug 21 02:28:03 testbox pkg_add: Added atk-2.18.0
Aug 21 02:28:08 testbox pkg_add: Added at-spi2-atk-2.18.1
Aug 21 02:33:36 testbox pkg_add: Added gtk+3-3.18.7
Aug 21 02:36:28 testbox pkg_add: Added gcr-3.18.0p1
Aug 21 02:36:45 testbox pkg_add: Added libarchive-3.1.2p0
Aug 21 02:37:27 testbox pkg_add: Added gvfs-1.26.2
Aug 21 02:39:05 testbox pkg_add: Added iso-codes-3.64
Aug 21 02:40:57 testbox pkg_add: Added gstreamer1-plugins-base-1.6.3
Aug 21 02:41:34 testbox pkg_add: Added gstreamer1-plugins-libav-1.6.3
Aug 21 02:49:00 testbox pkg_add: Added gnome-icon-theme-3.12.0p3
Aug 21 02:50:00 testbox pkg_add: Added gnome-icon-theme-symbolic-3.12.0p2
Aug 21 02:54:34 testbox pkg_add: Added gtk+2-2.24.29
Aug 21 02:55:00 testbox pkg_add: Added libxslt-1.1.28p3
Aug 21 02:55:11 testbox pkg_add: Added giflib-5.1.2
Aug 21 02:55:22 testbox pkg_add: Added libwebp-0.4.4
Aug 21 02:55:52 testbox pkg_add: Added gcc-libs-4.9.3p3
Aug 21 02:58:50 testbox pkg_add: Added icu4c-56.1p1
Aug 21 02:58:54 testbox pkg_add: Added harfbuzz-icu-1.1.3
Aug 21 02:59:11 testbox pkg_add: Added dbus-glib-0.106v0
Aug 21 03:00:01 testbox pkg_add: Added aspell-0.60.6.1p2
Aug 21 03:00:08 testbox pkg_add: Added enchant-1.6.0p2
Aug 21 03:00:36 testbox pkg_add: Added json-glib-1.0.4
Aug 21 03:00:44 testbox groupadd[26245]: new group added: name=_geoclue, gid=731
Aug 21 03:00:45 testbox useradd[19324]: new user added: name=_geoclue, uid=731, gid=731, home=/nonexistent, shell=/sbin/nologin
Aug 21 03:00:48 testbox pkg_add: Added geoclue2-2.4.1
Aug 21 03:04:12 testbox pkg_add: Added webkit-2.4.9p4v1
Aug 21 03:05:01 testbox pkg_add: Added midori-0.5.11
Approximately 1 hour and 20 minutes, 83 packages, 3 new groups and 3 new users later: "Yay, a browser!"
Code:
$ pkg_info | grep midori
midori-0.5.11       lightweight web browser
Seriously? Lightweight?

Sod that! Let's surf:
Code:
$ midori                                                
The configuration couldn't be loaded: No such file or directory
Illegal instruction (core dumped)
Palm, this is face.
Face, meet palm.

I'm very well aware that this is completely unrealistic. But if there ever was a moment I wished we had something like a native httpclient or openbrowser in base, this is probably it.

Almost as bad as a certain type of Molex connector.

This is going to be fun. I have list of eight or nine webbrowsers I'd like to try out. I'll keep a fire extinguisher ready once I reach the real behemoths like Firefox or Chromium, who knows what might happen.

Last edited by fvgit; 23rd August 2016 at 12:30 AM. Reason: Edited title to reflect the evolving nature of the topic. Was: pkg_add midori ...dependencies gone wild
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Old 21st August 2016
shep shep is offline
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There are two "flavors" of midori based on webkit: gtk2 and gtk3.

I'm using xombrero with webkit-gtk3 in 5.9.

Before replacing the older version, which is no longer supported, I would review ~/.xsession-errors and check to see that your ~/.config/gtk-2.0 is correctly set up - described here.
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Old 21st August 2016
TronDD TronDD is offline
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Anything based on webkit is not going to be "light weight" in my opinion. It will be reasonably functional at rendering, though.

Light weight would be lynx, w3m, or links+ (my prefered).

Even dillo or netsurf will have fewer external dependencies.

Tim.
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Old 21st August 2016
shep shep is offline
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Quote:
From the all-I-wanted-was-a-browser-but-what-I-got-instead-was-the-whole-bloody-ports-tree department.
Browsers inherently have compromises - viewing embedded videos may be seen as both a convenience and a security risk. Running java-script (something netsurf and the text based browser are not capable of) is slower and provides ways to execute remote code on your system.

I carry several browsers:

1) Firefox-esr for news sites, online banking and submitting government forms. Most of these rely on java -script. I set the preferences to delete everything when I close it.

2) Xombrero/webkit - works well on forums/noaa sites and can be sanitized with a few keystrokes. Xombrero is, at this time, broken in current. If it does not get fixed, I will use Midori/webkit in the future.

3) netsurf - no js at this time and sits half way between text browsers and firefox-esr. Noticeably faster than Xombrero/Firefox-esr

3) w3m to view html emails in mutt.

Last edited by shep; 21st August 2016 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 21st August 2016
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1:20 for 83 pkg_adds might possibly be improved by using a closer mirror.
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Old 22nd August 2016
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fvgit fvgit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shep View Post
There are two "flavors" of midori based on webkit: gtk2 and gtk3.
I already pulled a pkg_delete -X in the meantime. But to address your comment: pkg_add offered me to choose between midori-0.5.11 and midori-0.5.11-gtk3. I chose the former and ended up with gtk+3-3.18.7 AND gtk+2-2.24.29 anyway.

At first it coredumped everytime I tried to open a webpage. That is until I went through the preferences pane and discovered the proxy settings where I disabled the default gnome-something-proxy setting, don't remember what it was called exactly. After that I could fully load pages. But rendering was unbelievably slow and the browser still unstable. Mind you, my testbox consists of pretty old hardware (1998-2000), some might even consider it ancient.
Also, the whole dbus stuff and whatnot didn't sit very well with me.

BTW, the system has 320MB memory and the video card a whopping 4MB. And, yes, I do plan to test Firefox. Nothing like pushing the limits...

I might revisit midori at a later date. But on low-end hardware it is not a good choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TronDD View Post
Anything based on webkit is not going to be "light weight" in my opinion. It will be reasonably functional at rendering, though.

Light weight would be lynx, w3m, or links+ (my prefered).

Even dillo or netsurf will have fewer external dependencies.
Well, I consider text-mode browsing an entirely different kettle of fish. Somehow I never really got into it but I should probably revisit it. As for dillo you're spot on: here's a list of dillo's hand luggage on a system with zero packages installed:
Code:
quirks-2.197: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:png-1.6.20: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libiconv-1.14p3: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:gettext-0.19.7: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libidn-1.32: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libunistring-0.9.6: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libpsl-0.7.1p1: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:pcre-8.38: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:wget-1.16.3p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:jpeg-9a: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:fltk-1.3.3p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:python-2.7.11: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:desktop-file-utils-0.22p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0: ok
Seems much more reasonable, doesn't it? And the best thing: it's pretty usable. It's not perfect, of course (what browser is?) but it works reasonably well within the feature set it supports. For dated hardware a pretty good choice.

Netsurf will be next on my list. I'm curious to see how it compares to dillo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shep View Post
Browsers inherently have compromises - viewing embedded videos may be seen as both a convenience and a security risk. Running java-script (something netsurf and the text based browser are not capable of) is slower and provides ways to execute remote code on your system.
While I agree with everything you wrote, I'm still questioning the necessity of dependencies like cdparanoia for instance.
My point is, that somewhere along the road sth. went inherently wrong in matters of software design for web browsers. Especially if we consider the fact that basic functionality involves rendering a markup language document and a few images.
Let me put it his way: a web browser currently seems to be one the most un-OpenBSD-like pieces of software one might find on an OpenBSD desktop, text-mode variants notwithstanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jggimi View Post
1:20 for 83 pkg_adds might possibly be improved by using a closer mirror.
I wondered about that too, at first. I'm suspecting it might be partly hardware related (cable/nic). But for testing purposes I can live with it for the time being and look into it at a later date.
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Old 22nd August 2016
TronDD TronDD is offline
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Links+ has good X support. You can view images, use a mouse, etc. It's not text only (though can be). Using it for daemonforums right now, and always.

Have fun playing with browsers. At least you don't have to build them and all the dependencies!

Tim.
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Old 22nd August 2016
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ibara ibara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvgit View Post
I already pulled a pkg_delete -X in the meantime. But to address your comment: pkg_add offered me to choose between midori-0.5.11 and midori-0.5.11-gtk3. I chose the former and ended up with gtk+3-3.18.7 AND gtk+2-2.24.29 anyway.
That's to be expected. Just because that version of Midori doesn't use gtk+3 doesn't mean its dependencies don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fvgit View Post
Well, I consider text-mode browsing an entirely different kettle of fish. Somehow I never really got into it but I should probably revisit it. As for dillo you're spot on: here's a list of dillo's hand luggage on a system with zero packages installed:
Code:
quirks-2.197: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:png-1.6.20: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libiconv-1.14p3: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:gettext-0.19.7: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libidn-1.32: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libunistring-0.9.6: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libpsl-0.7.1p1: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:pcre-8.38: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:wget-1.16.3p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:jpeg-9a: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:fltk-1.3.3p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:python-2.7.11: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0:desktop-file-utils-0.22p0: ok
dillo-3.0.5p0: ok
Seems much more reasonable, doesn't it? And the best thing: it's pretty usable. It's not perfect, of course (what browser is?) but it works reasonably well within the feature set it supports. For dated hardware a pretty good choice.

Netsurf will be next on my list. I'm curious to see how it compares to dillo.
I find Netsurf to be quite superior to Dillo. You can use Netsurf to not just read, but interact with phpBB/vBulletin boards such as DaemonForums. I've posted many times here through Netsurf, something that I remember not being able to do with Dillo. It might be a bit larger but it's still lightweight, and the Netsurf team is pursuing JavaScript support so it might become a more relevant player for modern-ish web browsing on not-so-modern-ish machines. Plus it's much more likely than Firefox/WebKit to be buildable on lesser used architectures (though Dillo most likely supports even more architectures than Netsurf, but alas, diminishing returns and all...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fvgit View Post
While I agree with everything you wrote, I'm still questioning the necessity of dependencies like cdparanoia for instance.
I'm not really going to go into the details of how ports and packages work, especially on OpenBSD, but it's much more complex than your statement would lead one to believe. Maybe it could be better. But the result of your pkg_add midori has not been without thought and debate and much consideration. All invisible labor from your vantage point. We would all do well to seek out and engage with the invisible labors that undergird our lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fvgit View Post
My point is, that somewhere along the road sth. went inherently wrong in matters of software design for web browsers. Especially if we consider the fact that basic functionality involves rendering a markup language document and a few images.
I disagree with this. The world changes. Basic functionality no longer "involves rendering a markup language document and a few images." Basic functionality is a lot more than that. It's not 1996. If you don't like it, you can go protest the W3C. It's fun. The FSF protested the W3C at the conclusion of LibrePlanet 2016 this year (which I attended as a speaker, also something fun you should consider doing, especially after you've blazed the trail for Web 4.0).

Note that the W3C is just the tip of the iceberg...

There's nothing "inherently wrong" about it: that's making a claim of technological determinism (which are always too reductionist to carry enough truth to be useful, if not outright incorrect), and making a strange claim about the ethics and morality of software design (which even if true doesn't provide us with any ability to take action). A more nuanced understanding would look at the myriads of (often competing) forces, human and non-human, that co-shaped both the technology and each other in producing our modern technologies and realities vis-a-vis the web, noting that where we happen to be now is not in stasis but a snapshot in time with a known past from which to learn and uncertain future which can be informed. If nothing else, it would make for a more interesting (not to mention, more accurate) story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fvgit View Post
Let me put it his way: a web browser currently seems to be one the most un-OpenBSD-like pieces of software one might find on an OpenBSD desktop, text-mode variants notwithstanding.
Sure, I won't disagree with this assessment. However, one would not be in the wrong to assert that OpenBSD's priorities do not match their personal priorities, and use web browsers as an example of that mismatch. Nor would OpenBSD be in the wrong to assert that web browsers are not their priority.

By the way, Dillo needs a maintainer. I was the last maintainer, which means it hasn't been touched in a year. On the other hand, it looks like there have been no new releases of Dillo since I last updated it...
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Old 22nd August 2016
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jggimi jggimi is online now
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It looks to me like both midori and netsurf are "heavier" than either firefox or chromium, if heaviness is measured in run dependencies.
Code:
$ cd /usr/ports/www/midori
$ make full-run-depends | wc
      89      89    1491
$ cd ../mozilla-firefox
$ make full-run-depends | wc
      42      42     696
$ cd ../chromium/
$ make full-run-depends | wc
      57      57     948
$ cd ../dillo
$ make full-run-depends | wc
      16      16     237
$ cd ../netsurf/
$ make full-run-depends | wc
      64      76    1185
$
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Old 22nd August 2016
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The text browser elinks has the potential to support javascript. I could never get it to do much with js under Linux, but that may be my incompetence. I haven't tried it under OpenBSD but thought I'd mention it since javascript was being mentioned. Maybe someone here has experience with that.
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Old 23rd August 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibara View Post
I find Netsurf to be quite superior to Dillo. You can use Netsurf to not just read, but interact with phpBB/vBulletin boards such as DaemonForums. I've posted many times here through Netsurf, something that I remember not being able to do with Dillo. It might be a bit larger but it's still lightweight, and the Netsurf team is pursuing JavaScript support so it might become a more relevant player for modern-ish web browsing on not-so-modern-ish machines. Plus it's much more likely than Firefox/WebKit to be buildable on lesser used architectures (though Dillo most likely supports even more architectures than Netsurf, but alas, diminishing returns and all...)
Well, my 1st experience with Netsurf was a disappointment. For some odd reason it became unresponsive after a short while. In terms of speed dillo wins hands down. Also the text-rendering was mangled, some letters overlapping others. Feature-wise the odds are clearly in favour of Netsurf, of course. I've put Netsurf on my 'heavy' list with midori. Will give those a second look once I'm through with the rest, to see if they can be tweaked somehow for smoother operation on a low-end rig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibara View Post
I'm not really going to go into the details of how ports and packages work, especially on OpenBSD, but it's much more complex than your statement would lead one to believe. Maybe it could be better. But the result of your pkg_add midori has not been without thought and debate and much consideration. All invisible labor from your vantage point. We would all do well to seek out and engage with the invisible labors that undergird our lives.
Oh, trust me, I'm in awe of the the work that goes into the ports tree and the packages collection. Imagining I'd have to compile all that stuff by myself would be a scary prospect. Though, OS idiosyncrasies aside, I think this is more of a general problem. The OpenBSD ports tree dependencies are just the symptom, not the cause.
To illustrate where I'm coming from: my testbox may be pretty low end but it makes things more interesting. Testing and playing with X11 my first impulse was to install fluxbox ('ve used it before). It was ok but a bit naff, really. Then I reminded myself there are already two WMs in base, why not use those? Fvwm's default look may be a bit dated but I quickly found a way to make it look quite spiffy (quick search for fvwmrc, highly configurable, no need for extra wm packages = a plus on a low end machine). Being quite pleased with it the next step was gui browser. Midori was a bit of a random choice, the install log nothing short of a shock and the rest is history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibara View Post
I disagree with this. The world changes. Basic functionality no longer "involves rendering a markup language document and a few images." Basic functionality is a lot more than that. It's not 1996.
I was exaggerating a bit for the sake of the argument. You're right, on the other hand where's mime support for mail(1)? It's 2016 after all. To oversimplify: in the end it's just Moore's Law. Machines have gotten so much more powerfull over the years there's just no general need anymore to tweak things for minimal requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibara View Post
By the way, Dillo needs a maintainer.
Oh, please say it isn't so! Despite its obvious shortcomings it's still the best performing candidate. It even felt minimally faster than links+. Altough the latter's key-based navigation is fantastic.


If anyone's interested today's results:
Netsurf:
Code:
quirks-2.197: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libiconv-1.14p3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:gettext-0.19.7: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libutf8proc-1.1.6p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:python-2.7.11: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:pcre-8.38: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:desktop-file-utils-0.22p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:hicolor-icon-theme-0.15: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:atk-2.18.0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:jasper-1.900.1p4: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:png-1.6.20: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:xz-5.2.2p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libxml-2.9.3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:shared-mime-info-1.5: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:jpeg-9a: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:tiff-4.0.6p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:gdk-pixbuf-2.32.3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:gtk-update-icon-cache-3.18.7: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libcroco-0.6.11: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:graphite2-1.3.5: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:lzo2-2.09: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:cairo-1.14.6: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:harfbuzz-1.1.3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:pango-1.38.1: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:librsvg-2.40.13: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:gnome-icon-theme-3.12.0p3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:gnome-icon-theme-symbolic-3.12.0p2: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:gtk+2-2.24.29: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libparserutils-0.2.1p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:hubbub-0.3.1p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libnsutils-0.0.1p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:nghttp2-1.6.0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libidn-1.32: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:curl-7.47.0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:giflib-5.1.2: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libwebp-0.4.4: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libwapcaplet-0.2.2p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libcss-0.5.0p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libnsbmp-0.1.3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libnsgif-0.1.3: ok
netsurf-3.3p1:libdom-0.1.2p0: ok
netsurf-3.3p1: ok
Netsurf quickly became unsuable (see above). Will re-assess it later.

Links+:
Code:
quirks-2.197: ok
Ambiguous: choose package for links+
a       0: <None>
        1: links+-2.12p0
        2: links+-2.12p0-no_x11
Your choice: 1
links+-2.12p0:libiconv-1.14p3: ok
links+-2.12p0:gettext-0.19.7: ok
links+-2.12p0:xz-5.2.2p0: ok
links+-2.12p0:jpeg-9a: ok
links+-2.12p0:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok
links+-2.12p0:png-1.6.20: ok
links+-2.12p0:tiff-4.0.6p0: ok
links+-2.12p0:libxml-2.9.3: ok
links+-2.12p0:pcre-8.38: ok
links+-2.12p0:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok
links+-2.12p0:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok
links+-2.12p0:python-2.7.11: ok
links+-2.12p0:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok
links+-2.12p0:libcroco-0.6.11: ok
links+-2.12p0:lzo2-2.09: ok
links+-2.12p0:cairo-1.14.6: ok
links+-2.12p0:graphite2-1.3.5: ok
links+-2.12p0:harfbuzz-1.1.3: ok
links+-2.12p0:pango-1.38.1: ok
links+-2.12p0:shared-mime-info-1.5: ok
links+-2.12p0:jasper-1.900.1p4: ok
links+-2.12p0:gdk-pixbuf-2.32.3: ok
links+-2.12p0:librsvg-2.40.13: ok
links+-2.12p0: ok
Very much in the same category as dillo. Lightweight and usable. And cool navigation. Thanks to TronDD for pointing it out!

Last candidate for today, Conkeror:
Code:
quirks-2.197: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:nspr-4.11: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:nss-3.21.1: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gcc-libs-4.9.3p3: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libiconv-1.14p3: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gettext-0.19.7: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libelf-0.8.13p3: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libffi-3.2.1p0: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:pcre-8.38: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:bzip2-1.0.6p7: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:python-2.7.11: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:glib2-2.46.2p0: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:xz-5.2.2p0: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libxml-2.9.3: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:shared-mime-info-1.5: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:jasper-1.900.1p4: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:png-1.6.20: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:jpeg-9a: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:tiff-4.0.6p0: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gdk-pixbuf-2.32.3: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:hicolor-icon-theme-0.15: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gtk-update-icon-cache-3.18.7: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:libcroco-0.6.11: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:graphite2-1.3.5: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:lzo2-2.09: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:cairo-1.14.6: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:harfbuzz-1.1.3: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:pango-1.38.1: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:librsvg-2.40.13: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gnome-icon-theme-3.12.0p3: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gnome-icon-theme-symbolic-3.12.0p2: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:atk-2.18.0: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:gtk+2-2.24.29: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:desktop-file-utils-0.22p0: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:mozilla-dicts-en-GB-1.3p1: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:hunspell-1.3.2p2: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3:xulrunner-24.8.0p10: ok
conkeror-1.0pre.20131108p3: ok
Takes 45 seconds to load, not kidding. But once it's there it's mostly usable. Clearly not fast, but page scrolling daemonforums, for instance, was still quite nice! Now, submitting it to ebay's heavy javascript bombardement is another story altogether. Not fun anymore, but seemed to perform better than Netsurf.

Next up Xombrero:

BTW, what's the easiest way to take a screenshot? Any hints welcome.
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Old 23rd August 2016
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IdOp IdOp is offline
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Quote:
BTW, what's the easiest way to take a screenshot? Any hints welcome.
xwd(1) is the classic.
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Old 23rd August 2016
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvgit View Post
BTW, what's the easiest way to take a screenshot?
graphics/scrot
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Old 23rd August 2016
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ibara ibara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvgit View Post
BTW, what's the easiest way to take a screenshot? Any hints welcome.
Code:
# pkg_add scrot
EDIT: Ninja'd by ocicat!
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Old 23rd August 2016
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cynwulf cynwulf is offline
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I am missing the point it seems? You're posting lists of dependencies and citing larger numbers of those as some kind of problem?

You mentioned ebay - if you want to browse 'shopping sites' or anything with any kind of modern content - you need a modern browser. Modern browsers are heavyweight because functionality and features come at a price. You don't get modern functionality and features from a few MBs of "lightweight" browser with a handful of dependencies.
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Old 23rd August 2016
TronDD TronDD is offline
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Well you did miss the 350MB of RAM available which is rather limiting. Although the number of dependencies isn't really relevant to runtime memory consumption, it's something to measure.

Tim.
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Old 23rd August 2016
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jggimi jggimi is online now
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And as I'd posted above, midori has the largest fleet of run dependencies among the browsers that had been discussed to that point, including more than both the dreaded Firefox and Chromium behemoths.
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Old 23rd August 2016
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cynwulf cynwulf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TronDD View Post
Well you did miss the 350MB of RAM available which is rather limiting.
No, didn't miss that. The spec of the machine makes it mostly unsuitable for modern web browsing.
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Old 23rd August 2016
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I can understand the frustrations expressed by fvgit. It's true, there are applications which legitimately require many of these things ... it's not 1996 anymore and all that. But what happens is, because of those the adoption gets so widespread that their availability is assumed, and other applications get dragged into it. For example, there is no way I should need broadband and a quad-core to go check my bank balance, and move money from my checking account to credit card. Sledgehammer, meet peanut. Yet that is exactly the point we're at the cusp of imminently. As someone who doesn't care much about youtube and eBay, it frustrates me too. I realize that resistance is largely futile, in the long run.
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Old 23rd August 2016
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdOp View Post
But what happens is, because of those the adoption gets so widespread that their availability is assumed, and other applications get dragged into it.
For better or worse, applications follow whatever hardware configuration developers use. Deviate too far from this norm, & the problems discussed in this thread will emerge.
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