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General software and network General OS-independent software and network questions, X11, MTA, routing, etc. |
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I never have problems with Xorg, instead of dismissing it entirely.. how about posting the configuration file so we can fix it for you?
Windows is never a solution. |
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Use of HAL for configuration of X server speaks volumes. I am really sick and tired of Linux Desktop and their agenda. For my grandmother and alike there is a Unix based alternative for Windows and is called OS X. When I use BSD, I want to use Unix and I could not care less if it doesn't work for my grandmother and her friends. Last edited by Oko; 24th May 2009 at 08:04 PM. |
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I agree too. There is always something that is broken in Xorg, or has changed so that old things don't work, or whatnot. It really is irritating. After 6.9 rolled into history, I've increasingly yearned for XFree. At least it was one thing I did not have to worry about, as it never failed me. At least once I got a .conf that did what I wanted it to.
The sad thing is that most of the rest of our user software, at least the desktop flavors, relies on Linux software too. In my experience those ports are not much different than what we have said about xorg. The server-side stuff is different. |
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Not mine . The only things I personally use which could be considered "Linux Projects" are sane-backend (although I must admit that they are really OK with complete Unix support) and MPlayer. Absolutely everyting else or almost everything (until GCC gets replaced with PPC and Groff with Nroff) is non GPL software. The only part of MPlayer I really care is actually mencoder. Everything else is irrelevant for me.
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Right now I have a simple, reliable, implementation of X. Adam |
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Maybe it is because my systems have been more stable then ever before, maybe it is because I tried carefully selecting them to be sure "it just works", but I think you should consider trying different hardware - or writing code.
Just a thought.
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My Journal Thou shalt check the array bounds of all strings (indeed, all arrays), for surely where thou typest ``foo'' someone someday shall type ``supercalifragilisticexpialidocious''. |
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Cant agree more Carpetsmoker :/
When s/XFree/Xorg/g thing happened, all things started ti degrade slowly, release after release ... Thinkgs that worked flawwlessly for years have been broken/dropped just like that without any reasonable reason, like CTRL + ALT + NUMPAD PLUS/MINUS for switching between reslutions, like disabling the CTRL + ALT + BACKSPACE shortcut by default (what the fsck for?). All this Linux like madness of rewriting every possible subsystem just to add some small features and fix old bugs (and add many new ones) with breaking all backward compatibility with several other subsystems is just broken. Just how many 2D accelration techniques have been recently developed, XXA, EXA, now UXA, what next ... Now we have HALd as a dependency (not yet mandatory), maybe we will have PulseAudio or even ALSA in some near time as a mandatory dependency on Xorg even just to see naked xterm with prompt When all this rewriting swamp started I thought nice, we should have some really improoved x11 in some near time, but as we all see this rewriting never ends, and developers rewrite again all subsystems because some feature was missed. Its just sick.
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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Reevaluating my point for a moment, I do agree that some of the choices.. constant rewriting for one.. is rather annoying.
For example, nouveau is difficult for the BSD projects to port because they keep rewriting large portions of it.. they hardly ever release anything.. billions of git branches.. and they tend to make use of bleeding edge Xorg features that no OS vendor even supports yet. They also purposefully broke multicard setups I heard, not that I'm a utilizer of that feature.. that does sound awful. And finally, my friend uses an older integrated Intel graphics chipset.. the maintainers of that driver don't appear to be interested in supporting legacy devices, breakage is quite frequent. So.. I'm not delusional that Xorg is the perfect project, but in the end it tends to work here the majority of the time, I don't own anything all that powerful anyway.. most of the time the systems I own have r128/mga graphics chipsets. |
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One of the major problems with Xorg is also one of the major problems with Linux: they've broken it up into individually coded, (almost) separate projects, that all develop at their own pace. There's not such thing as "Xorg 7.4" just as there is no such thing as "Debian Linux 5.0" -- it's just a (virtually) random collection of various modules with different version numbers thrown together as "a release".
It's great that each of the pieces can now be worked on separately, but it really sucks that now each of the pieces is released separately. Work on them separately, but release them as whole. It's like there's no Q/A done to "the collection formerly known as X11", it's all just "compiles? loads? ship it". Just like a Linux distro. It's very irritating. And the whole "everything that is not Windows is Linux" mentality is getting to be very annoying. So long as it works on Linux, it must work everywhere (since everything is Linux), so it's shipped. And (from what I've heard around the virtual water cooler) the number of Linux-isms in the tree is increasing. I wouldn't really be too surprised if Xorg 8.0 became a Linux-only release, with tight ties into the kernel. I've never had any real issues running Xorg on my systems, but the reliability and speed has been going down over time, compared to XFree86 4.0. |
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My only at-now wish list for Xorg is that it_and_its_dependencies do not
bump so often. ............ Maybe some of the posters above who are disillusioned would benefit from the below information. ( this is from a file I put in /xorg-server/, I hope it is accurate. Assumption... an upgrade to any of the ports means most or all should be rebuilt for stuff to work smoothly. That all *if some* must be rebuilt (I assume, ) is the reason for my wish-it-bumps-less-often above. ......... That is all of course on this system, others may have other reasons (ati,) ..... AFAIK the below is the one-then-the-next upgrade of ports order... ..... libdrm dri libGL libGLw /xorg-server/ libGLU libglut kldunload nvidia (obsolete here maybe because of the nouveau driver recently installed) kldload nvidia ( "" ) ( glclock, mesa-demos, glxgears, testing)... ....... (ignoring xorg.conf, that is another issue) Last edited by jb_daefo; 25th May 2009 at 03:11 AM. Reason: smile as we run glclock... |
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Hi. Can Xfee86 be installed in FreeBSD 7.x (how, ports/package/off the sources)? And Can it do 3D acceleration (the type that is required for games)?
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Adam |
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I wonder, why all major BSDs (and maybe OpenSolaris) will not create their own x11 fork and brong back quality to x11 then rely on this currently broken shit.
OpenBSD already has Xenocara ...
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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@vermaden
Maybe this will look interesting when it gets done: http://socghop.appspot.com/student_p.../t124022812213
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The best way to learn UNIX is to play with it, and the harder you play, the more you learn. If you play hard enough, you'll break something for sure, and having to fix a badly broken system is arguably the fastest way of all to learn. -Michael Lucas, AbsoluteBSD |
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@s0xxx
It will be great for embedded devices, but without ANY config at all and so its just too much minimalistic, it would be also nice to see how it works/behaves, maybe config is not really needed. There was also Y Window Server some time ago, totaly rewritten x11 replacement, but no one cared ... @tangram Indeed, Xorg is even now too much Linux dependant and moving parts of Linux kernel just to have xterm is little "unfomfortable".
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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I think sooner or later we (the *BSD projects) will have to break with some established concepts. And one of them should be the never ending following of the Linux crowd.
In other words, we need to focus on our strengths and follow our own path. We should stop following projects like Xorg that are committed to the Linux crowd needs. If the Xorg project wants to pursuit Linux needs so be it, they are free to do so and we should just focus on pursuing our needs. Soon or later the Xorg will be so intertwined with the Linux kernel that we'll be crafting Linux stuff to our kernel just to be able to run X. Else we'll be doomed to always be a couple of steps behind the curve struggling to keep up. Differentiate not initiate. I know that speaking is easy and I know that resource are scarce but honestly things are going to get better.
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BSD and Linux tips and tutorials: Blog Linux/BSD: sharing experiences |
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To be fair, there is nothing, yet, from the linux kernel that is required to have an xterm.
Adam |
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Not exactly Adam.
I remember reading a year ago an interview on Linux Format with Keith Packard from the Xorg project. And there were definitely plans to move some Xorg stuff to Linux kernel. I'll try to find out where I have the magazine and post some quotes (this can take a while because I think I've left the magazine at my parents house).
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BSD and Linux tips and tutorials: Blog Linux/BSD: sharing experiences |
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Mind you, I doubt that there will ever be anything required from the linux kernel to run an xterm. Even if more and more of the drivers move functionality into the DRM (which is certainly happening with kernel mode setting, and 2D/3D acceleration), a simple xterm doesn't require any of those kernel features. Adam |
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