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Old 17th July 2015
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Originally Posted by betweendayandnight View Post
ISOs, packages and ports of -current version are found in http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/ ??
I am not jggimi, but I will pass on my commentary on this subject.
  • ISO's found at pub/OpenBSD/snapshots consist of the kernels, filesets, & supporting binaries for -current -- the head of the CVS repository. Snapshots of the popular architectures will be generated perhaps daily -- sometimes several times a day. Other architectures will not see new snapshots at the same frequency.
  • -current packages are generated at a slower rate, but will be found at pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/packages. The fact that packages may lag behind changes in the base system may lead to some library mismatches. Those running -current need to be aware of this, & factor in potential down-time when upgrading. Library mismatches may mean that -current users will need to build packages from source, or wait several days for new packages to appear. -current users also see the need of back-ups, & factor this into their upgrade practices.
  • Because of project constraints, not all applications in the ports tree will made available for -current users. Again, -current users are expected to have the technical skills needed to deal with building issues.
  • The CVS tree(s) (kernel, userland, ports, documentation, etc.) are available at a different set of servers. http://www.openbsd.org/anoncvs.html will list available sources.
  • -release & -stable are intentionally meant to be library compatible -- meaning that packages compiled for -stable should run as expected on -release, & vice-versa.
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Old 17th July 2015
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ibara ibara is offline
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Also, please don't use the main site. Use a mirror. That's what they're for.
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Old 17th July 2015
betweendayandnight betweendayandnight is offline
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Originally Posted by ocicat View Post
I am not jggimi, but I will pass on my commentary on this subject.
  • ISO's found at pub/OpenBSD/snapshots consist of the kernels, filesets, & supporting binaries for -current -- the head of the CVS repository........................................ ..............................................
ocicat, thanks for the detailed explanation and I appreciate you taking the time to do that.

My I suggest that what you wrote above be put into a file called README1st and uploaded to the snapshots directory of all the FTP mirrors. This way new converts to OpenBSD will have a clear idea of what they are going to download.

Now regarding your detailed and useful explanation, I've some questions for you:

1. What's meant by "head of the CVS repository?

Quote:
& supporting binaries for -current -- the head of the CVS repository.
2. Does building packages from source cause the --current version to become insecure (that is, vulnerable) and unstable?

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Library mismatches may mean that -current users will need to build packages from source,
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Old 17th July 2015
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Originally Posted by betweendayandnight View Post
My I suggest that what you wrote above be put into a file called README1st and uploaded to the snapshots directory of all the FTP mirrors. This way new converts to OpenBSD will have a clear idea of what they are going to download.
No. For one, ocicat isn't a developer, so he can't drop anything onto the FTP site.
Second, this is not the place for suggestions. tech@ is, preferably with a diff.
Third, this is why the FAQ makes clear that if you're new, start with an official release CD: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#BuyCD
And the FAQ does make clear what the snapshots directory is: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Flavors
By the way, the FAQ is on the mirror sites, under doc/

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Originally Posted by betweendayandnight View Post
1. What's meant by "head of the CVS repository?
The very latest code, i.e. -current.

Quote:
Originally Posted by betweendayandnight View Post
2. Does building packages from source cause the --current version to become insecure (that is, vulnerable) and unstable?
I'm not really sure what you're trying to ask here.
If you're asking "will building a -current port on a release or -stable machine cause the machine to become insecure and/or unstable?" then the answer is "maybe, but probably not." More likely, smaller ports will be "whatever" with that arrangement and larger ports won't build.
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Old 17th July 2015
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If you're asking "will building a -current port on a release or -stable machine cause the machine to become insecure and/or unstable?" then the answer is "maybe, but probably not." More likely, smaller ports will be "whatever" with that arrangement and larger ports won't build.
However, that arrangement is wildly unsupported, so you're on your own if things break.
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Old 17th July 2015
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betweendayandnight View Post
My I suggest that what you wrote above be put into a file called README1st and uploaded to the snapshots directory of all the FTP mirrors. This way new converts to OpenBSD will have a clear idea of what they are going to download.
Various points. Note that I am editorializing from my own experience.
  • While this is a nice idea, daemonforums is a third-party site which has no affliliation with the OpenBSD project. There are a few project developers who read & respond to questions here, but the majority of members & regulars are simply users just like you. I am a user just as you. I have submitted diff's & bug reports, & some have been incorporated into CVS, but I have no commit privileges.
  • The OpenBSD project is small, & it gets a lot accomplished with very little resources. The culture focuses on submitted diff's, & rightfully so. Ultimately, it is the behavior of code which defines the system, & talk is cheap. Keeping discussion at the level of "what specific changes need to take place in the code" helps move conversation forward. Any user is free to submit diff's to the project, & the developers will earnestly evaluate whether those changes work & advance the goals of the project. All submitted diff's are not accepted, & that is the way development should occur. There may be a better way to accomplish the same goal.
If you believe a newbie document needs to be made available, construct what you think needs to be its contents, & submit it to the project for consideration. I would suggest you study all collateral documentation first to determine if your proposal(s) are not already found elsewhere.
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What's meant by "head of the CVS repository?
CVS is a source control software, & the one used by the OpenBSD project. You can download the repository or view it online:

http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/

Basically, all revisions of code are tracked & maintained.

Periodically, code is tagged with a label which also defines a branch. As examples,
  • All code defining OpenBSD 5.7-release can be found in the branch called OPENBSD_5_7_BASE. The official CD images are pressed from this branch, & once created, this branch never changes. Ever.
  • When OPENBSD_5_7_BASE is created, the tag for OPENBSD_5_7 is also created. This defines the -stable branch. Some changes will be back-ported to this branch.
  • All code checked into CVS which does not target a specific branch implicitly go into HEAD which is the development branch.
The "head of the CVS repository" is the branch defining -current. Yes, the parlance of source control can be odd, but this is the world developers live in.

More information can be found at the cvs(1) manpage.
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Does building packages from source cause the --current version to become insecure (that is, vulnerable) and unstable?
Some consessions have to be made in building ports. You will find discussion in Section 15 of the FAQ. I would recommend you study this section first, & come back with further questions based on your readings.

Last edited by ocicat; 17th July 2015 at 06:04 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 17th July 2015
betweendayandnight betweendayandnight is offline
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Thanks ocicat for the very detailed but comprehensive explanation.

Could your explanation above be made into some kind of "Sticky" for future reference?
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Old 17th July 2015
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betweendayandnight View Post
Could your explanation above be made into some kind of "Sticky" for future reference?
Good suggestion. The entire thread is now "sticky".
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