OpenBSD usage?

[benky]

...I am back, ohhh that man pages that come with OpenBSD are so extensive, I enjoy reading them. This week I'll try some real things/practice work.

I thought that this would be the first place to ask...so searching for the net I found some stats that shows about OpenBSD usage, some of them are old. The distrowatch is site where I found some data to use.

I know it's very hard and almost impossible to do the stats for OpenBSD usage, but here I am asking do anybody know some source from where I can take some info about stats? thnx

[ibara]

Originally Posted by benky

I thought that this would be the first place to ask...so searching for the net I found some stats that shows about OpenBSD usage, some of them are old. The distrowatch is site where I found some data to use.

I wouldn't bother with distrowatch. It's unlikely BSD people really go there. You're probably more getting the number of Linux people who were curious enough to click on a BSD link rather than a sense of BSD people are using the site.

Originally Posted by benky

I know it's very hard and almost impossible to do the stats for OpenBSD usage, but here I am asking do anybody know some source from where I can take some info about stats? thnx

We don't collect usage stats: that's kinda the point.
However, looking through the Foundation's campaign from last year you can make some extrapolations:
http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/campaign2014.html
The goal was $150,000 (which was greatly shattered) which provides these statements a little context:

Originally Posted by OpenBSD Foundation website

If $10 were given for every installation of OpenBSD in the last year from the master site (ignoring the mirrors) we would be at our goal.
If $2 were given for every download of the OpenSSH source code in the last year from the master site (ignoring the mirrors) we would be at our goal.
If a penny was donated for every pf or OpenSSH installed with a mainstream operating system or phone in the last year we would be at our goal.

The last one is extremely generous: it should better read "If a fraction of a penny ..."
And the first two are only talking about the master site. There are a lot of mirrors:
http://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html

Good luck!

[ocicat]

Discussion on OpenBSD usage is being separated from its parent thread:

http://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=8808

...as that discussion asked about OpenBSD's security features.

We find that most members of this site extensively search through the archives. To help facilitate searches, we ask that each thread limit its discussion to a single subject as set forth in the thread's initial post. Also, English may not be the first language of many readers, so clarity may be lost if discussion meanders into other issues.

We promote discussion at this site, but if the subject is straying away from the intent of the original post, start a new thread.

This is also covered in the forum rules.

[benky]

I will need a luck. As I wrote I am a little bit familiar with OpenBSD community and know that is impossible to get a real stats about the usage. The part about usage stats it's not important in my final work and that is not topic of work, I concluded that it's better to leave it with some approximations values and use the time better for other things.

Thank you!

[ibara]

If you really want to talk about usage, talk about how everyone in the world is using OpenSSH for secure communication. Talk about how pf is the firewall on Mac OS X and iOS (so every iPhone, iPad, etc. uses it). Talk about how every single Android device uses OpenBSD's libc as its C library (among all the other OpenBSD code used in Android). Talk about how OpenBSD pioneered safe C string handling (strlcat and strlcpy: used in, among other places, the Linux kernel). Talk about how OpenBSD pioneered things like W^X, ASLR, the list goes on and on. Talk about how OpenBSD moved time_t to a 64-bit long long and then engaged with the broader Free Software community to make sure that time_t no longer assumed a 32-bit value. So when other operating systems finally make the move, all the software they care about it ready and waiting for them. All of these examples come from OpenBSD.

Talk about how nothing we do with computers today would be possible without OpenBSD. That's a lot more powerful than speculating how many installs are done each year.

[bsd-keith]

My first time with OpenBSD, I had to calculate disc partitioning sizes manually & additively when installing, now it is quite straight forward - this fact undoubtably increased its usability for many people.
(Also, people stopped saying RTFM & guided newbies to where the info could be found to be read.)

[s0xxx]

Originally Posted by ibara

...
Talk about how OpenBSD moved time_t to a 64-bit long long and then engaged with the broader Free Software community to make sure that time_t no longer assumed a 32-bit value. So when other operating systems finally make the move, all the software they care about it ready and waiting for them.
...

For the record, OpenBSD was not the first OS to take time_t to 64bit - NetBSD did it before (Oct 2012 in 5-CURRENT, made it into 6-RELEASE).

I fully agree on all other points, OpenBSD should get more attention as it has pioneered and donated so many things that others use.

[hitest]

Originally Posted by ibara

Talk about how nothing we do with computers today would be possible without OpenBSD. That's a lot more powerful than speculating how many installs are done each year.

Agreed. Very interesting, ibara. I didn't know that PF is used on my iPad or OS X and iPhones.

[ibara]

Originally Posted by s0xxx

For the record, OpenBSD was not the first OS to take time_t to 64bit - NetBSD did it before (Oct 2012 in 5-CURRENT, made it into 6-RELEASE).

You are quoting out of context. That is extremely poor form. This is what I actually said:

Originally Posted by ibara

Talk about how OpenBSD moved time_t to a 64-bit long long and then engaged with the broader Free Software community to make sure that time_t no longer assumed a 32-bit value. So when other operating systems finally make the move, all the software they care about it ready and waiting for them.

I didn't make the claim that OpenBSD did it first.

NetBSD did not engage with the broader Free Software community. NetBSD moving time_t to a 64-bit long long first is an irrelevant statement. It doesn't matter if NetBSD did it first, they did not engage with the rest of the world. They might as well have not done it at all.

OpenBSD is the reason why now when other operating systems make that move, all the software their users care about will be ready. You clearly weren't around when we were fixing all the ports that assumed time_t was 32-bit and getting those fixes upstream. I was.

[s0xxx]

Originally Posted by ibara

You are quoting out of context. That is extremely poor form. This is what I actually said:

I didn't make the claim that OpenBSD did it first.

I did not say you did, I did it to make it obvious that OpenBSD was not the first one to do it. What's the point of talking about some feature giving it relevance as if it is something big when others have done it years ago.

NetBSD did not engage with the broader Free Software community. NetBSD moving time_t to a 64-bit long long first is an irrelevant statement. It doesn't matter if NetBSD did it first, they did not engage with the rest of the world. They might as well have not done it at all.

[note: above emphasizes mine]
Now that's a poor form on your side. I guess they should have announced it on a six o'clock news when they did it. And saying that "They might as well have not done it at all", I mean... please.

OpenBSD is the reason why now when other operating systems make that move, all the software their users care about will be ready. You clearly weren't around when we were fixing all the ports that assumed time_t was 32-bit and getting those fixes upstream. I was.

I have a great respect for all developers, regardless if they belong to the OpenBSD camp or other *BSD's or other software in general.

I just thought it should be pointed out that some people have already done a switch before OpenBSD folks did, I was not trying to put down OpenBSD (or devs that put effort to do it) in any way. If you understood it that way, than, well it's your problem. I am not trying to make enemies here, we should all be friends discussing things we like. Chill.

[ibara]

Originally Posted by s0xxx

I did not say you did, I did it to make it obvious that OpenBSD was not the first one to do it. What's the point of talking about some feature giving it relevance as if it is something big when others have done it years ago.

Because they did it in a bubble. When NetBSD did it the world didn't notice. When OpenBSD did it the world changed. By your logic, we shouldn't connect OpenBSD to things like ASLR because PaX did it first. That's just a non-starter because it wasn't until OpenBSD did it that the world was forced to move to an ASLR world.

Originally Posted by s0xxx

Now that's a poor form on your side. I guess they should have announced it on a six o'clock news when they did it. And saying that "They might as well have not done it at all", I mean... please.

Yup. They should have. And then they should have engaged with their third party software and got them to make their software better. When you don't engage with the world you demonstrate that you don't care to be part of the world. As far as I'm concerned, that's a problem.

Originally Posted by s0xxx

I have a great respect for all developers, regardless if they belong to the OpenBSD camp or other *BSD's or other software in general.

I'm friends with NetBSD developers at the very top of the chain. Doesn't magically make them beyond criticism. Is it harsh? Probably. But it comes from a better place than you could understand.

Originally Posted by s0xxx

I just thought it should be pointed out that some people have already done a switch before OpenBSD folks did, I was not trying to put down OpenBSD (or devs that put effort to do it) in any way.

Contextualization matters. Broader relevance matters. The OP asked about usage. OpenBSD got the world ready for Y2K38. That matters. Does it matter that NetBSD did it first? Not really... they didn't prepare the world to follow them.

Originally Posted by s0xxx

If you understood it that way, than, well it's your problem. I am not trying to make enemies here, we should all be friends discussing things we like. Chill.

Now this is just silly.

[ibara]

Originally Posted by hitest

Agreed. Very interesting, ibara. I didn't know that PF is used on my iPad or OS X and iPhones.

It's also in your car, by way of QNX. OpenSSH is also in your car for the same reason.