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General Hardware General hardware related questions. |
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I'm looking at getting a MicroATX form factor case and motherboard to meet the space requirements more easily. Quote:
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I understand that MATX is pretty limiting, so if I can't have *everything* I won't freak. Intel Q35 will fir there without any problem.
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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You are crating bottle neck. Even we poor OpenBSD guys have more ram than that Code:
OpenBSD 4.4 (GENERIC.MP) #1812: Tue Aug 12 17:22:53 MDT 2008 deraadt@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP real mem = 3199037440 (3050MB) avail mem = 3102326784 (2958MB) Code:
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor) cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 4300 @ 1.80GHz, 1800.19 MHz cpu0: FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,SBF,SSE3,MWAIT,DS-CPL,EST,TM2,CX16,xTPR,LONG cpu0: 2MB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache cpu0: apic clock running at 199MHz cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 1 (application processor) cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 4300 @ 1.80GHz, 1799.97 MHz cpu1 quads and core 2 duos) I would get between 4-8 GB of RAM. Quads are so cheap now that I would not think twice to get quad core processor. On new egg where I shop (much better than Tiger direct in my opinion) today's least price for Quad core is $179 that is probably only $60 more than Core 2 Duo. I would put 8 GB or RAM with Quad. If I am spending all that money I would not use cra**y board since that is the most important component. You probably need to spend well over $100 for mother board if not $200. Last edited by Oko; 13th November 2008 at 10:56 AM. |
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The Unix variants have poor support for wireless peripherals then? What nVidia card would you suggest? Thanks for the other recommendations. Quote:
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That's also a factor I should consider. I wasn't planning on getting a cheap motherboard. |
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You can even do other thing. If you will get Intel Q35, then you will have Intel 3100 GMA inboard (in Q35) which is great for all UNIX systems and Linux, and tak your wanted 4850 card to play gamez at Linux or Windows. If it goes for nVidia, I would go for something like: 8800GS < 9600GSO < 9600GT < 8800GT < 9800GT (check benchmarks @ anandtech.com)
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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you started with quads and 2 duos so I poured little bit oil to the flame. If you want really elegant solution go with MicroITX and fanless VIA chip-sets. That is what I really like these days beside SUN's sparc hardware. If I was building Wintel box I would go with quads and 8 GB of memory. By the way I had couple boxes that where running even X on 128 MB of RAM and some old PIIs and they worked well. It is definitely one option to get old Wintel hardware for free. The problem is if you want to use your rig for storage you have to use new hard disks and how are you going to hock them up to such rig? |
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As for inboard Intel graphics controllers, I've found the performance of my inboard Intel controller (865 or whatever is what Ubuntu tells me) to be less than satisfactory on Linux (it's not great on Windows but much better than on Linux). I assume they'll use similar drivers for all the Unix variants, so I hope drivers for those inboard graphics are better? Quote:
I might try SPARC some day if it's affordable, but for now I'll just go the more common AMD64 route (I'm also gonna be getting a mac - but certainly a SPARC system could be useful for porting to SPARC). Also is there any simple way to use an AMD64 to build and test i386 binaries? Or would I need to set up a cross-compiler and run in an emulator? |
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Like that: 865 --> 910(GMA 900) -> 945(GMA 950) --> 965(GMA 3000) --> Q35(GMA 3100) --> G35 --> G45 ... Intel GMA 3100 (Q35) is more then enought for desktop, at least COMPIZ says so.
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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I know it's quite old, so is most of my system. I'm going to take your response as "Intel drivers have improved".
I guess if Compiz says it's good enough it's probably good enough. EDIT: Wikipedia specifically says "DirectX9" for GMA 3100, but no mention of DirectX10, Shader Model, or OpenGL 2.1/3.0. Any information on those? EDIT2: Wikipedia again, "FreeBSD 7.0 supports the following Intel graphic chipsets: G965/Q965/GM965/GME965/GME945. Support for G33/Q33/Q35 is also included, but disabled due to lack of testing." Would it be difficult to enable Q35 drivers? EDIT3: I'm thinking this may be a good motherboard for me: GIGABYTE GA-Q35M-S2 6 SATA, 1 IDE, 2 PCI, 1 16x PCI-e, 1 1x PCI-e, 4 DDR2 memory slots, 6 USB 2.0 ports in the back, etc. Intel Q35 integrated graphics and Realtek ALC888 integrated sound. Pretty well-rounded for an MATX board. Last edited by nfries88; 13th November 2008 at 04:04 PM. |
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the manufacturer. Both Intel and AMD manufactured processors can run it without any problem. The same processors can run in 32 bits mode which is popularly called i386. If the system runs in 64 bits mode compiled binaries will not be able to run on machine which runs in 32 bits mode. You are right about processor emulators. I am familiar with SPIM which emulates MIPS processor (the best processor architecture by a mile) and also GXemul which can emulate ARM, MIPS, and PPC. I am not aware of the AMD64 emulator for i386 processor. Cheers, OKO |
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All AMD64 processors can run in 32-bit mode? Is that a BIOS option? Also, 64-bit processors can run 32-bit binaries? I thought that was only a Windows feature. Quote:
Know of any SPARC emulators? |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA Quote:
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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graphics Unix stations and servers were using MIPS until last year. We older people see MIPS as the best processor architecture for computers but reality is that you are right and that MIPS and ARM are today mostly used in embedded devices (which is well over 80% of processor market). PPC is IBM although MAC also used to be MAC PPC. PPC processor used in MACs are manufactured by IBM but they are different processor architecture then IBM PPC used in servers. Cheers, OKO |
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So the information is still relevant to me. Quote:
Tyan boards look awesome and aren't far outside my "expected" price range, but I didn't see any MATX ones so I'm not interested. As for super micro, I see a few suitable boards but they aren't looking as good to me as the Gigabyte board I'm already looking at. The only one I'd actually consider is the "MBD-X7DCA-L-O", but it only supports a small set of Xeon processors, just barely misses the maximum size for a MATX board (meaning there may be issues fitting it in a MATX case), and has XGI graphics (which wikipedia says are less-than-competitive with ATI or nVidia and might not even be supported on Linux or *BSD). Quote:
Last edited by nfries88; 13th November 2008 at 06:02 PM. |
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http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1...redaconkx6.jpg http://www.projectlan.de/uploads/Art...latout2_12.jpg Quote:
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religions, worst damnation of mankind "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus Torvalds Linux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”. vermaden's: links resources deviantart spreadbsd |
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So it supports Vertex Shader 3.0, Pixel Shader 2.0, Direct3D 9.0c, and OpenGL 1.4. "Good enough" I guess. Quote:
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You can use the machine flags (-m) to adjust the output created by the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), -m32 -> 32-bit environment, -m64 -> 64-bit environment. I don't know off hand if you need both a 32-bit and 64-bit version of binutils for the platforms in question, but you probably do. Quote:
So, as the processor can understand the machine code, the Operating System can be made to understand the binary format used for the executable images -> this is ELF in 32-bit/64-bit forms; in the case of modern Linux/BSD systems if memory serves.
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My Journal Thou shalt check the array bounds of all strings (indeed, all arrays), for surely where thou typest ``foo'' someone someday shall type ``supercalifragilisticexpialidocious''. |
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How would I get GCC to use the 32-bit binutils then? Also guessing that I can't build a 64-bit binary on 32-bit x86 using -m64 if a 64-bit binutils is required? Just making sure I understand all this. Quote:
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The behavior is built into the chip for all intents and purposes ;-). With that in place, it's just a matter of making the kernel understand what format the binary is in, for example:
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Terry@vectra-$ file /bin/ls /bin/ls: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1, for OpenBSD, statically linked, stripped I'm not sure how the implementations of binutils are done. The software in bintutils basically amounts to an assembler, linker, and associated utilities needed to work with code for the target platform. (You would basically be setting GCC up for cross compile to a different processor.) All of which should be using libraries to handle some of the lower level specifics, such as the GNU Binary File Descriptor and opcodes libraries, I know BFD supports various processors/arches and the exact implementation for a platform is very non-portable stuff; but at the end of the day it's still basically generating code, not running it. I personally see no reason why you shouldn't be able to compile a 64-bit program on a 32-bit OS, *as long as the necessary tools/libs to manipulate the code can be compiled on the 32-bit box*, it's just the processor won't be able to use the machine code it creates. _Exactly what you can cross compiler from a 32-bit OS_, that I don't know -> I don't do cross compiling; someone else here or on the reliveant mailing lists might be able to help you on the limitations involved. But doing i386 on AMD64 will be easy.
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My Journal Thou shalt check the array bounds of all strings (indeed, all arrays), for surely where thou typest ``foo'' someone someday shall type ``supercalifragilisticexpialidocious''. |
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There are two different methods for doing this: - the chroot method, where you install a complete 32-bit userland in a directory on the system, where it all runs on top of the 64-bit kernel, and you just "chroot" into it before running 32-bit apps - the "32-bit compat" method, where you install all the 32-bit libs and apps right into the OS, into directories like /usr/lib32. Then, when you execute a 32-bit app, it looks in the /usr/*32/ directories for its libraries, and runs just like any other app. FreeBSD supports both of the above. The compat method is what you use when you install 32-bit apps via the ports tree. |
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