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Old 8th October 2015
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blackhole blackhole is offline
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Default LinuxCon 2015 - Linus says "I’m sure we could do better" on kernel security

Quote:
On kernel security:

I’m sure we could do better, but we have a fair amount of tools to do static checking for common patterns--and we haven’t had anyone say this is unfixable, rewrite it all. Don’t get me wrong, security people will always be unhappy. But the kernel poses special challenges, because any bug can be a security bug. We also have to keep in mind that most of the kernel is drivers, a big chunk of the rest is architecture specific, and there are 25 million lines of code. So it’s really hard to have people go over it; we have to rely on automated testing and on tools. There are too many lines in too many obscure places for humans to really check.
http://www.linux.com/news/software/l...linus-torvalds

Even with my very limited experience of this, it seems like this equates to proper code auditing not really being possible because there's 'too much code' to audit? With most of the Linux kernel being drivers, you have to wonder what percentage of those drivers are unmaintained and supporting long dead hardware which 99.999% are not using?
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Old 8th October 2015
e1-531g e1-531g is offline
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You can manually configure Linux kernel before compiling it. I even have measured time of compiling kernel with default config (I don't remember if this config is from upstream or some distro) and configured by hand for my laptop.
First option compiled in 4033 seconds, second 337 seconds.
Of course maybe there still be some hooks in various places for drivers etc, which will be compiled in.
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Old 8th October 2015
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Well you can build a kernel with modules only for the target system, which does cut down on build time yes, but in general terms that's pretty useless for someone maintaining a kernel for a distribution or administering more than one box - and the way Linux is developed, it's not that practical to maintain your own personal kernel build for a single machine either. So generally, distributions are providing kernels with the 'full' kernel build including all of the aforementioned cruft.
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Old 8th October 2015
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25 million lines of code

I did not even imagine the kernel was so large.
Quote:
There are too many lines in too many obscure places for humans to really check.
I know very little about kernels, but I imagine as the kernel continues to evolve and older pieces become obsolete, there is a danger that it could become too unwieldy. Crushed by its own weight so to speak. Perhaps they should consider creating a new kernel and implementing it when it is ready, instead of continuing to patch the old one?
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Old 13th October 2015
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Well it's a viable assumption that the code base will simply continue to grow as, despite how many developers are involved and the amount of corporate money thrown at it, it's just too "hard" for people to do security audits, let alone remove redundant code, unsupported drivers, etc.

It's more like a case of it being too far gone and too complex and perhaps there are parts of the code which no one really understands any more on account of the open development model (e.g. there are people or groups of people who made commits, possibly over 10 years ago, who no longer work on the project)? From a security perspective that doesn't sound too good.
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Old 13th October 2015
e1-531g e1-531g is offline
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For most use cases (Threat model) Gnu/Linux is reasonably secure if someone doesn't do stupid things and update it frequently. Every human action have associated probability of failure, operating systems are not exceptions.
Formal verification of an OS microkernel should be an ideal, but I don't know whether any operating system based on f.v. microkernel for desktop use-cases exists.
For me OpenBSD is good balance between ideally secure OS and functionality.
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Old 13th October 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e1-531g View Post
For most use cases (Threat model) Gnu/Linux is reasonably secure if someone doesn't do stupid things and update it frequently.
The same could be said for any OS. That's not actually the issue being discussed anyway and adds nothing meaningful.

In case you missed it:
Quote:
So it’s really hard to have people go over it; we have to rely on automated testing and on tools. There are too many lines in too many obscure places for humans to really check.
This is tantamount to saying - we can't audit it because there's too much of it. If it's not then what is it? If it can't be audited and it's ok to have code in "obscure corners", should it be running on stuff like cisco routers or whatever (especially considering the notoriety for poor support from such vendors)?

In my view this is just yet another "get out", as with:

http://www.cio.com/article/2434264/o...-monkeys-.html

(though perhaps a little more subtle this time around)

Opinion: Torvalds has pretty much chosen to do nothing at all with regards to kernel security and left it to third parties, i.e. a reactive approach rather than a proactive one. There wasn't really a security model in the first place, so retroactively implementing that is not easy - and of course discrediting "security people" is easier.
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Old 7th November 2015
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A new, controversial*, Washington Post article on the same subject: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/bus...-the-argument/

The article is typical tech press and I'm not exactly a fan of this periodical or style of journalism, but it raises many points on Linus' dismissive arrogance towards "crazy" "security people" and reckless attitude towards security features.

*fanbois are up in arms
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Old 24th December 2016
richardet richardet is offline
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I'd love to get by on only FreeBSD or OpenBSD, but I simply don't have the patience, thus for me, I use a friendly version of Linux, and use OpenBSD in a virtual machine. Seems like a reasonable compromise.
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Old 4th January 2017
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Nope:

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=119318909016582

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Old 5th January 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I agree. A virtual machine cannot be more secure than the hypervisor it sits upon.
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