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Old 17th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Default Seven Most .. please share with us ..

Hi DaemonLovers!

I hope everybody will come and share with us :

you can answer all or some .. you can supply 1 most or more as you deem fit ..
So I start with myself eventhough I am in lowest ranks ..

Can you think of the ... :

1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
Dennis Ritchie

2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
the Terminal

3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
Julian Assange

4- Most interesting website ?
this one where I can learn about fringe-science issues :
http://www.megafoundation.org/Genius/GeniusHall.html

5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
OpenBSD

6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
So far : shell scripting

7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
Monopoly

ps.
Some answers maybe will push some of us to start new threads .. specially relating to innovative programmer,convincing OS .. etc .that is what I hope .. :-) ..

.. your turn to share ..
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Old 19th February 2012
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Carpetsmoker Carpetsmoker is offline
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Quote:
1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
I'm not really in a position to judge that ... I don't have a clue of most people's programming work! (Never seen a like of code by Dennis Ritchie for example).
But for me personally? My dad. Because he first taught me how to program.

Quote:
2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
All software sucks, except the software that I wrote (and you probably have a different opinion about my software).

Quote:
3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
Osama Bin Laden probably shaped the political landscape more than any other person.

Quote:
4- Most interesting website ?
Wikipedia. In spite of it's flaws (and there are many!)

Quote:
5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
FreeBSD, OpenBSD, both have different strengths/weaknesses.

Quote:
6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
Mostly Python. But this is subject to change as I try and pick up more languages (Currently learning Haskell).

Quote:
7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
Discussing human nature ("the good, the bad, and the ugly" of it ) is beyond the scope of this website...
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Last edited by Carpetsmoker; 19th February 2012 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 19th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Hi CarpetSmoker ! at last ! there is one hacker accepting a newb's invitation .. thanks

1 - well .. maybe I am prejudiced here because I believe since c has got a shining history and honorable reputation and is at the core of every kernel so being in love with bsd presupposes and entails being in love with Archetypal C !!

2 - wow ! I'd be happy to learn about that .. in what prog lge mainly ? not c I bet ..

3 - Maybe partialy true in certain areas but remains limited , but I believe Assange has done what no other human being did .. I remember Bruce Lee the thinker -not the martial artist- once said : "water can crash or it can flow .. be water my friend" .. Assange has got a flowing power , not a crashing power .. a power which buils instead of destroy .. as I believe he is being the most mankind-centric truth-advocator and truth-miner .. my opinion and I respect all other opinions ..

4- obviously you are a php programmer so you know what is going on badly .. while I can't .. :-(
maybe you just disappove of the extent to which users-supplied information has been through scrutiny and validity check etc .. a perpetual dilemma because meaning is positional .. and a historical event is more or less nothing more than somebody's comment on it ..

6 - nice to know about !!

7 - it can never and should never be overlooked .. why then are there some forum-related rules .. lol .. it is no harm discussing all issues provided that it be politely and amicably .. despite differences .. ideologies .. etc ..

Happy to learn about Carpetsmoker's ... thanks .. waiting for other hackers ..

Last edited by daemonfowl; 19th February 2012 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 19th February 2012
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Quote:
1 - well .. maybe I am prejudiced here because I believe since c has got a shining history and honorable reputation and is at the core of every kernel so being in love with bsd presupposes and entails being in love with Archetypal C !!
Perhaps ... But it's not like Dennis Ritchie singlehanded invented C ... To quote the famous quote: "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants".
Perhaps Ken Thompson was *more* influential? He wrote C's direct predecessor, B, he also started UNIX. Then again, UNIX would never have been as successful as it is without C (first versions were written in assembly, it got ported to C later).
How does one measure this sort of thing anyway? It seems quite impossible to me.
I think it's silly to say that "person X is *the* most influential programmer". I would say that Dennis Ritchie is *a* influential programmer instead.

Quote:
4- obviously you are a php programmer so you know what is going bad .. while I can't .. :-(
maybe you just disappove of the extent to which users-supplied information has been through scrutiny and validity check etc .. a perpetual dillema because meaning is positional ..
I'm not sure what being a PHP programming has to do with this ...?

I have a few problems with wikipedia, in short:
1) It's a pain to change stuff. You have to battle hordes of idiots, autistic tunnelvision people, and plain trolls.

2) There are people who relentlessly just *delete* entire blocks of text without sufficient reason (the main excuse nowadays is "not notable enough"). They usually use dirty hacks to circumvent the stringent rules regarding deletions (the main one is emptying a page and redirect it to something else. Ever notice how many wikipedia pages contain links to itself or strange destinations? This is why).

3) *If* you finally made your change and got a page in reasonable shape, it's a challenge to *keep* it that way. See point 1.

I like wikipedia to get a quick overview of the info, and the "external links" and/or references usually provide more info if I need it.

Quote:
2 - wow ! I'd be happy to learn about that .. in what prog lge mainly ? not c I bet ..
Python, PHP, and Javascript.

If you want, here's an overview: http://code.google.com/u/martin@arp242.net/

Mostly it's not very polished ... I actually use most of it myself, and it works quite well for *me*, mainly because it was specifically written for *my* needs, which is why it doesn't suck for *me* I release the source because ... well, why not?

Quote:
Assange has done what no other human being did
Cryptonome did was Assange did long before Assange did it. As did many other websites.
Besides, can you name one single *concrete* thing that got changed because of wikileaks? I'm sure there are examples, but I can't think of any out of the top of my head ...

Quote:
7 - it can never and should never be overlooked .. why then are there some forum-related rules .. lol .. it is no harm discussing all issues provided that it be politely and amicably .. despite differences .. ideologies .. etc ..
This is a subject of many books, and *much* controversy ...
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Old 19th February 2012
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
it is no harm discussing all issues provided that it be politely and amicably .. despite differences .. ideologies .. etc ..
There are topics which some have very passionate opinions that are different from the very passionate opinions of others. Everyone believes they have thought through all the counter-arguments so listening to opposing sides only revisits old ground already covered. Nothing is gained in such exchanges.

This also possibly fuels animosity which can potentially spill into technical discussions. Given that this site focuses on technical discussion, discussing non-technical topics ends up being counterproductive. This is why most on this site stay clear of such potential powder kegs. It serves little purpose, & it does not further our fundamental goal.
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Old 19th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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That's so interesting to read Friend Carpetsmoker !
interesting points concerning wikipedia .. they need to hear your voice ..
your quoting the quote explains maybe how those giants were great humble and non-narcissist .. well in fact it reminds me of Linux Thorvald's saying ..
yes both are {influentional hackers} .. so {most} is intruder here .. but for sake of 7most lol .. 7up ... usually when I said {influential} it gets relativised by the one who's approaching the topic/Q .. while I meant ifluential programmer as far as computing chronics are concerned .. without c there would be no embedding technologies .. no tiny OSes .. no portability .. no kernel tweaks .. {assembly ==> c} was one of the biggest turning point ..

Quote:
can you name one single *concrete* thing that got changed because of wikileaks?
star-highlighted concretism makes the whole difference .. I believe wikileaks has redefined the notion of democracy/justice/'polycultural interpeace'/transparency/security/philanthropism/ ...... a lot of ideas taken for granted .. at peril now ..
many mindsets are changing thanks to wikileaks .. many 'maxims' .. 'truisms' .. this is a change ! .. in the long run .. it will bring about deeper changes at different levels and strata .. that's karma ..
As for the cryptome -new news for me- .. isn't it radically different doing *geeky* out of moral obligation and doing *geekything* out of pragmatic narcissism (money-fame-hostility-enemity)?

I paid you a short but pleasant visit home and said hello with a {$wget -r --no-parent ..}.. :-) and saw part of your coding genius .. how nice to produce something useful out of digits and algorithms .. I hope some day I will be able to join the coding community as more than just a passive beholder and admirer ..

Thanks again .. that's actually what I was hoping to see with the somehow insane {Most_7} thing ..

Last edited by daemonfowl; 19th February 2012 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 19th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Hi Ocicat !
sorry I posted again before seeing your post ..
Quote:
Given that this site focuses on technical discussion, discussing non-technical topics ends up being counterproductive
maybe true for some .. except for the wikileaks issue , all other questions were off-politika ..
I once read something like {OpenBSD is to stay as politically-neutral as possible} .. yes .. for the same reason that you mentioned ..
ok let's drop that question .. or maybe you'd want to remove or close the thread .. no problem Ocicat ..
:-)

Last edited by daemonfowl; 19th February 2012 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 19th February 2012
backrow backrow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocicat View Post
There are topics which some have very passionate opinions that are different from the very passionate opinions of others.
I disagree strongly. In fact, I think this is completely wrong.

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Old 19th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Our Friend Ocicat means something like this :

two extremely antagonist brains from widely discrepant extreme *frontiers* .. both are impulsive and dogmatic .. both showing no readiness to rethink , crititique and reconsider their opinions and views .. here we can say it's a hopeless case .. lol ..

such a case is probable if not common .. nonetheless I believe I'm here among well educated folk .. well-principled .. book-worms .. well-tempered .. the cream of the cream ..
maybe it turns to be a world of sharply warring ideas .. but then at least let us try to reconcile them , then if we fail , we try at least to approach the issue the RIGHT WAY ..
the right way is the whole issue .. so what's the right way ?
it's a long way .. which starts by this important basis : that my opinion/dogma might be false ... likewise .. yours might be so too .. no kierkegaard's either/or no more ..
sorry again if I have triggered things off daemonland .. just the corner called off-topic is a bit alluring .. lol ..

Last edited by daemonfowl; 19th February 2012 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 19th February 2012
backrow backrow is offline
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Don’t worry, I was only making a joke.

I guess I should answer the actual questions now…
Quote:
1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
I’m pretty fond of the Bell Labs crowd: Thompson, Kernighan, Ritchie, Pike… I wouldn’t call them “innovative” so much as “inspiring.”

I really love that the books they write are thin. This is in contrast with, say, Knuth (who is a great writer, but one who writes and writes and writes and writes…)
Quote:
2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
UTF‐8–aware nvi, and piped software in general (since that lets me edit stuff in UTF‐8–aware nvi!).
Quote:
3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
Ron Paul!
Quote:
4- Most interesting website ?
Too many to list, but I’m quite fond of link aggregation sites and blogs, despite the fact that they’re humongous timesinks…
Quote:
5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
OpenBSD. Most convincing OS I’ve never used: Plan 9.
Quote:
6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
Depends on the context. Assembly for concepts, C for general use, shell scripts for quick and dirty. I’ve been meaning to try out Go. Now that OpenBSD has rthreads in by default, I guess I have no excuse not to.
Quote:
7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
The idea that person/group/government A can (or should) force person B to do something through rule of law. Whether it’s US government policy or just the GPL…
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Old 19th February 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Backrow ! you're so cool , Man !!

Thanks for the post .. thanks fro sharing ..

your post made me compile nvi-m17n for the first time, read about libertarian Ron Paul .. and start a new thread spotting light on plan9 .. and yes .. it's not dead .. and must not ..

your last two lines are so valuable ..

ps.
off-topic : Backrow ,I need your opinion here please :
http://www.daemonforums.org/showthre...2531#post42531

Last edited by daemonfowl; 19th February 2012 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 26th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
Dennis Ritchie
It's good to add on the list Fernando José Corbató - w w w . multicians . org/corby.html
Not mention Ken Thompson...

The UNIX Time-Sharing System, edycja; Bell System Technical Journal, v 57: No 6 July-August 1978 --- w w w 3 . alcatel-lucent . com/bstj/vol57-1978/articles/bstj57-6-1905.pdf

Above text was first published in the Communications of the ACM, Vol. 17, No. 7, July, 1974, pp. 365-375.
In 1971 when UNIX was moved to a PDP-11, system was characterized by its small size: 16K bytes for the system, 8K bytes for user programs, a disk of 512K bytes, and a limit of 64K bytes per file. After its early success, Thompson set out to implement a Fortran compiler for the new system, but instead came up with the language B, influenced by BCPL. B was interpretive language with the performance drawbacks implied by such languages, so Ritchie developed it into one he called C, allowing generation of machine code, declaration of data types, and definition of data strucures. In 1973, the operating system was rewritten in C, an unheard of step at the time, but on that was to have tremendous impact on its acceptance among outside users. And these is the real heritage of the UNIX. Kernel that is written almost in 100% in high level language --> witch determine its portability to other computer platforms.

-forgive me web address spread - 5 post limit -- after then I can add links freely
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Old 26th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
John McCarthy (or his graduate student?)

Quote:
2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
acme. Historically, Bard's Tale II.

And to be fair, I'm using emacs to write this and it's not unenjoyable. I suppose I could hook acme up to It's All Text. It's just when I attempt a 2nd instance it says, "9pserve: announce unix!/tmp/ns.username.:0/acme: Address already in use
acme: can't post service: 9pserve failed"

Quote:
3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
No one's yet appeared of any great prominence. Let's hope this trend continues.


Quote:
4- Most interesting website ?
archive.org


Quote:
5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
OpenBSD. I hope to be persuaded by plan 9 someday if I can ever figure out how to get it running on my hardware and can learn to live without certain software. Having fun with plan9port.


Quote:
6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
C++ - expressive, general purpose, performant, and able to do what C can for system code.

Though realistically for my personal needs so far probably anything would cut it. I'm not writing simulations, compilers or operating systems here. I'd say Perl but I think if I learned them better I might prefer Common Lisp or Scheme. If I learned further, then something along the lines of ML (maybe ocaml) might be best, but I don't know yet having only begun to learn ML and having put it aside when the latest Stroustrup book came out.

Quote:
7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
Violence backed by technology, particularly nuclear weapons.
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Old 26th July 2013
thirdm thirdm is offline
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Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
Besides, can you name one single *concrete* thing that got changed because of wikileaks? I'm sure there are examples, but I can't think of any out of the top of my head ...
It was of course not the only factor but I've heard the uprising in Tunisia linked to the revelations in the diplomat cables. That idea sounded more convincing to me than the explanation that it was a "twitter revolution."

I had a good laugh reading the U.S. ambassador to Canada writing about anti-american sentiment as shown in certain tv shows on the cbc. I consider me being successfully entertained a concrete thing, though I guess not much in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 26th July 2013
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1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
This one has been beaten to death already (and...have programmers been around for longer than a century yet?)

2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
cwm || tmux...can't decide.

3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
This question should really come after #7 so it's cast in the proper light.

4- Most interesting website ?
why, daemonforums.org, of course =P

5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
mv jonathon bandwagon
Yeah, OpenBSD.

6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
Lately I find myself moving mountains with plain old shell scripting.

7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
Enforcing one's own perceived rights without consideration for other's actual rights...
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Old 26th July 2013
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1) I think a good case can be made for Grace Hopper, although most people wont instantly know her. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

2) I'm not sure enjoyable is the correct term, but i3 and xombrero have been my favorites because they don't get in the way.

3) No comment

4) For me Red Ice Creations

5) Plan 9 and QNX (QNX had a Free version years ago which they don't seem to have anymore...and I lost my copy). Only thing with both are lack of apps that I need.

6) Python- I like that it doesn't get in my way. And when I use other languages now I still think in Python or Pythonically as they say. Professionally I have to use C# daily.

7) The belief in authority.
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Old 26th July 2013
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Quote:
1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
As far as innovation is concerned, Malcolm Douglas McIlroy for me.

Quote:
2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
Pipe.

Quote:
3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
I don't give a damn to their importance.

Quote:
4- Most interesting website ?
tube8.com. C'mon I'm being honest.

Quote:
5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
Slackware Linux. Hands down!

Quote:
6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
Bash shell scripting for day to day admin tasks. I'm learning device driver programming though and bow down in front of C.

Quote:
7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
Religion. (Yes, its a behavior)


Regards.
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Old 27th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
Hi DaemonLovers!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan
What's up, buddy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
I hope everybody will come and share with us :

you can answer all or some .. you can supply 1 most or more as you deem fit ..
So I start with myself eventhough I am in lowest ranks ..

Can you think of the ... :

1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
Dennis Ritchie
Pavlov.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
the Terminal
Porn-o-matic thumbnail generator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
Julian Assange
Martha Stewart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
4- Most interesting website ?
this one where I can learn about fringe-science issues :
http://www.megafoundation.org/Genius/GeniusHall.html
porn-o-plenty

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
OpenBSD
Windows... without it, I would have never ventured into Open Source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
So far : shell scripting
Ass kicking. If that doesn't convince you, nothing will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
Monopoly
Answering posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
ps.
Some answers maybe will push some of us to start new threads .. specially relating to innovative programmer,convincing OS .. etc .that is what I hope .. :-) ..

.. your turn to share ..
Right-o!
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Old 27th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninguem View Post
Pavlov.
Good answer!
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Old 29th July 2013
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1- Most innovative programmer of the last century ?
Theo

2- Most enjoyable piece of software you happen to be using ?
dosBox, and Day Of The Tentacle and Sam & Max and Doom and Doom II and...

3- Most important political figure of the new century ?
Terence Hill & Bud Spencer

4- Most interesting website ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket357 View Post
why, daemonforums.org, of course =P
Agree.

5- Most convincing (or persuading ! ) OS you ever used :
SEGA YENO SC-3000 with a Basic cartridge.
I was 10 years old, and it has been a real shock for me.

6- Most convincing programming language -as to your personal needs- ?
C

7- Most detrimental human behavior ?
Wasting time instead of focusing on my needs
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