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Old 1st June 2009
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X.Org's server is supposed to be a reference implementation of X11 is it not? There's nothing to stop people from creating an alternative implementation is there?
In this context a ``reference implementation'' means ``We have a monopoly and can do whatever the hell we want''.

Xorg is no different from Intel or Microsoft in this respect.
The situation with Xorg is like with GCC, there is a de-facto monopoly and in the end almost everyone is worse off because of it.
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Old 5th June 2009
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I found very interesting article on this very interesting and informative thread:
http://keithp.com/~keithp/talks/xser...-ols2004-html/
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Old 11th June 2009
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My problem is, they are going to take away xorgconfig, which always worked for me flawlessly. Just a few steps and you are done. It was so simple, so easy.
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Old 11th June 2009
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Why is it being removed? It also worked very well for me too.

(Recently I needed to configure X on a Ubuntu system, it didn't come with xorgconfig, I used a FreeBSD install and xorgconfig on that to make a xorg.conf for the Ubuntu system ...)
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Old 11th June 2009
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From http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=xwin-di...-03&t=10009533

Quote:
The X.Org community recently released Xorg server version 1.6. This
version no longer includes the xorgconfig text UI or xorgcfg GUI for
creating and editing xorg.conf files. These utilities had not been
kept up to date with advances in Xorg configuration in recent releases,
and were mostly unmaintained and unused in the community, since most
Linux distros used their own configuration tools.
sigh, /* no comment */
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Old 11th June 2009
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I used those tools tons. Not everyone uses Gnome or KDE where you tweak the settings in a pretty gui. So I have to pray X -configure gets it right or it's manually tweaking xorg.conf except in Ubuntu/Debian, they don't use that kind of file anymore. I have no idea what they use now.

It look a lot of work to get X going on my NetBSD 5.0 box. It would have been a lot easier if I had xorgconfig at my disposal.
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Old 11th June 2009
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What's wrong with using X -configure?
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Old 11th June 2009
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That's just what I was thinking, phoenix. I was very happy to find X -configure, as xorgconfig (xf86config it was then!) and such were just so annoying! X -configure, then tweak, just worked so much better.

Maintaining a second rate, largely unused tool like xorgconfig was work that did not need to be done. Thanks for the memories, but it's time you retired.

The rest of Xorg's missmanagement, however - that is another story!
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Old 12th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
What's wrong with using X -configure?
For one it is i386 and amd64 specific. Have you ever configure X on sparc64. platform. Apparently not because X -configure doesn't exist on sparc64

IMHO if X -configure works, it works really well. If it doesn't work which is often the case with older laptops alternative is writing xorg.conf file from scratch by hand.

That has never been the case with xorgconfig. Note also that xorgcfg was depreciated earlier.
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Old 12th June 2009
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I was once a strange person who used xorgcfg and xorgconfig, they died.. I'm very happy.

X -configure or Xorg -configure should at least create a basic xorg.conf file you can play with, does it not at least do that on non-i386/amd64 architectures?

Other supported OpenBSD architectures have default configuration files available, you don't have to construct it from scratch.. or at least, you shouldn't have to.

A README document exists on OpenBSD that you can use to learn about X on your platform, it's always /usr/X11R6/README.

I don't think DDC support in Xorg is restricted to i386/amd64, but if it is.. most monitors have a label on the back of them, laptop displays might be a little harder.. but X has default Vert/Horiz settings now that will give you at least 800x600 on a VGA monitor now.
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Old 12th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSDfan666 View Post

Other supported OpenBSD architectures have default configuration files available, you don't have to construct it from scratch.. or at least, you shouldn't have to.
Starting from OpenBSD 4.6 X server on sparc64 will not require any xorg.conf file. Configuring X server on sparc64 even now is trivial. All it takes is to edit slightly xorg.conf file which comes with the

/usr/X11R6/README.

Actually until year or two years ago configuring X server on sparc64 was far easier than on i386 and amd64. I was just trying to make a point why some people have a hard time getting used to X -configure. Bottom line xorgcfg and xorgconfig are dead peaces of code so they should be removed.
I am just very afraid about the direction in which X is moving (HAL crap for one).
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Old 12th June 2009
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I guess the decision to deprecate xorgconfig is debatable ... I find it useful on occasion, I also use X -configure but that doesn't always work as well.
xorgconfig is useful for making a generic configuration, I guess a (sane/generic) default in /usr/local/share/examples/ will also do.
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Old 12th June 2009
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I liked using the xorgcfg utility ... that disappeared too
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Old 12th June 2009
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Wasn't xorgcfg the graphical configuration utility? It always confused the hell out of me and I waws never able to figure it out ...
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Old 12th June 2009
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Yes. cfg was graphical, config is (soon to be "was") text based.
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Old 12th June 2009
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X -configure never worked for me. It'd get the driver right but the screen resolutions were so out of whack it gave me headaches. Then I had to go and track down PrefferedMode and put that in, DefaultDepth, etc. xorgconfig worked correctly every single time.
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Old 12th June 2009
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I agree with you. Setting up a VESA compliant generic config is a snap with the text configurator when needed, such as when X -configure creates an unworkable xorg.conf.

Of course, all of these complaints/concerns/whines/gripes/rants won't have any impact; they're not directed to the xorg -at- freedesktop.org mailing list.
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Old 12th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker View Post
Wasn't xorgcfg the graphical configuration utility? It always confused the hell out of me and I waws never able to figure it out ...
Umm, the one with the ncurses interface. It asked a few simple questions and you are done. I loved it.
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Old 12th June 2009
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Maybe I'm old school (no!) but I hand-crafted a config file back in the xf86/4.x days. I've used that one ever since, with a few minor modifications (for example, with xinerama or not).
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Old 12th June 2009
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I am starting to save my xorg.conf from my computers now so I don't have to deal with the new pain they're bringing on.
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