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Old 23rd January 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Default Should newbies use -current?

Thank you Ocicat ..
is it a good option for a newbie to follow current ?
eventhough it might turn sometimes troublesome , some say it is a good way to accelerate learning ..
I am using openbsd 5.0 stable and waiting some advice from bsdcraftsmen ..

I regret wasting years on windows .. the more I use openbsd the more I feel the big difference .. thanks theo .. thanks bsdfolk .. thanks hackers ..
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Old 23rd January 2012
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@Daemonfowl, there are many production users of -current. It can be as easy as upgrading to the most recent snapshot. However there are some things you should consider before making the jump:

  • Since -current is an active development environment 10 months of the year (see FAQ 5.1), there is the possibility that a component or feature will stop working, or suddenly function differently. You must get used to testing your applications after a -current build or upgrade, and be prepared to back out your changes. This isn't difficult, but it must become part of your normal cadence. (As an example of this, two weeks ago I had a problem with both a window manager and a browser on a workstation after upgrading -current while various library bumps were in progress. I was unable to isolate a specific root cause. The problem was resolved immediately by restoring from backup, and was transient -- it did not recur after my next release(8) build.)
  • Most mirrors carry the "snapshot packages" built for the more popular architectures, but they will rarely if ever be synced exactly with any snapshot. Users of -current must therefore be comfortable with building individual packages from ports from time to time, or their complete set of ports, as necessary -- whether they upgrade snapshot to snapshot, or whether they build from source.
  • All -current users must review the Following -current FAQ for applicable items prior to upgrading, or building -current. Some of these structural changes may be implemented via the use of sysmerge(8), others may require manual configuration.

Last edited by jggimi; 23rd January 2012 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Added a link to the Following -current FAQ reference.
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Old 23rd January 2012
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
is it a good option for a newbie to follow current ?
I would not recommend moving to -current unless there are specific reasons for it. Sometimes there are.

As for accelerating learning, no. Not for those very new to Unix.

Your best guide for learning OpenBSD is to put in serious time studying the FAQ.
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Old 23rd January 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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thank you so much Jgimmi ! , thank you so much Ocicat !
I admit I am a total newbie and I feel so passionate about BSDWorld and BSDCommunity ..
I'm prone to consider Ocicat's advice and stick to stable ..

looking forward to get some help with the unicode issue .. I still cannot save pages when in unicode titles so I have to change title names into latin .. otherwise files won't save ..
+ how can I set fvwm to switch between two kb layouts ?

http://www.daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=6728

help is much appreciated .. when Chronus allows ..
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Old 23rd January 2012
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
looking forward to get some help with the unicode issue .. I still cannot save pages when in unicode titles so I have to change title names into latin .. otherwise files won't save ..
+ how can I set fvwm to switch between two kb layouts ?
daemonfowl, please don't split discussions across multiple threads. This is covered in the forum rules. Most members here use this site to research through the archives of old threads. Searching is simplified when threads are limited to one subject as directed by the person starting the thread. Meandering does not help.

Secondly, this site is small, & it is completely a volunteer effort. People will respond when they have time & if they feel they have something to add to the discussion.
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Old 23rd January 2012
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
is it a good option for a newbie to follow current ?
One of benefits of Unix is that it is transparent (sometimes translucent). Everything is exposed for use. One of the detractions of Unix is that it is transparent & sometimes translucent such that people unknowingly shoot their own foot. Saving the user from themselves is not the highest priority as it may be in other environments.

The OpenBSD community is small & mostly comprised by professionals & developers. The OpenBSD culture does not include lots of help for those totally new to Unix. While this site may bridge some of the gap, the number of regulars at this site is even smaller than the community at large. While we welcome questions from those at all levels of experience, recognize that a volunteer site has limits. This thread helps frame how questions can most effectively get the answers desired.

Nevertheless, the information presented in Section 5.1 of the official FAQ should be factored when answering the original question.
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Old 23rd January 2012
ocicat ocicat is offline
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This discussion has been split from its parent thread:

http://www.daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=6707
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Old 23rd January 2012
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@daemonfowl, I have some general recommendations for those new to OpenBSD:
  1. There are only two official "How to" resources -- the INSTALL.<arch> documents packaged with each release, and the FAQ. Any other "How to" documentation you find on the Internet is likely to be out of date, or incorrect, or misleading... or all three. Please, don't blindly follow any third party "how to" docs. You can read them, but never trust them.
    • I left the "How to" docs published as articles in the OpenBSD Journal (http://undeadly.org) off the list of approved documentation. That is because while they were vetted by a group of editors before publication, and were valid when published, they are not maintained and may be out of date.
  2. Please see www.openbsd.org/books.html -- there are some terrific resources mentioned there. From that list I wish to make special mention of Michael Lucas's Absolute OpenBSD. It is out-of-print, though the publisher still sells a PDF version of it; and there is a sample chapter available for download. Michael's most recent publication on OpenSSH, mentioned here in the forum this week, germinated from his work developing a second edition, still in progress. While this first edition is sometimes technically out of date due to the many changes to OpenBSD since it was written, it is still a terrific resource and I still refer to my dog-eared-falling-apart copy from time to time. I have recommended this book to all and sundry, because it was written for an audience that could be brand new to Unix-like systems or have more than 30 years experience with them.
  3. Follow the misc@ mailing list. You'll need a mail client that displays threaded discussions and has (unfortunately) killfile capabilities. The misc@ list requires some getting used to, it is always a shock to newcomers -- and often shocks those who have long been participants. Even though the noise to signal ratio can sometimes be very bad, this is a great place to get an understanding of the culture of the "OpenBSD Community" -- two words which together are often considered an oxymoron. You will also have a feel for common issues and problems, and how they are managed (or not managed). Lastly, should you ever find the need to post to misc@ for assistance, you will have learned what is considered acceptable, and what is not, enabling you to better craft your request.
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Old 23rd January 2012
ocicat ocicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jggimi View Post
Follow the misc@ mailing list.
Emphasis added by me.

OpenBSD is a small project. The target audience for OpenBSD is the OpenBSD developers themselves. They just happen to make their efforts public for users like us to use freely. It is not a goal of the OpenBSD project to overcome Windows, Linux, or anyone else. There are times when the developers will gladly point users to other alternatives.

From time to time, users will suggest and/or even demand new features on misc@. Unless those requests come with code submissions, such requests will be ignored. Sometimes unseemly responses will be made.

misc@ should not be construed as being a resource for hand-holding. It is a mailing list provided by the project developers with the community for discussing OpenBSD at the development level. It is best used as a forum for focused & researched questions only. Unlike other Open Source projects, all of the OpenBSD developers do so as volunteers. Developers like to develop. They have to be very protective of what they spend time doing if they are going to be productive & effective. Hand-holding, for better or worse, doesn't make them more productive. If this seems unfriendly, consider whether the mailing lists used by the core Linux team are public. Linus Torvalds doesn't interact with rank-&-file Linus users. He wouldn't get anything done if he did.
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Old 23rd January 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Ocicat , I's sorry for the inconvenience and I thank you for your enlightening advice !
This forum may a sa matter of fact be small .. yet, it does have unique features since it appertains to the BSDs .. and what is more .. neat and clean .. not overburdened with host of pics and stuff .. I like that .. it has the feel of the BSDs itself ..

Jggimi , thank you very much !!
number 3 is true ..
as for "OpenBSD Community" , I don't think it is oxymoronic .. it's just that 'Daemonists' do not hype , they produce clean code .. consistently .. avoiding the lights .. though energizing the very sources of those lights .. a fact ..

un cadeau pour Ocicat & Jggimi :

I invite both of you to listen to Stillstream while coding :

$ mplayer http://srv3.electro-music.com:8500
zen-listening while zen-coding , right ?

Last edited by daemonfowl; 23rd January 2012 at 10:02 PM.
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