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Old 13th August 2012
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jggimi jggimi is offline
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I am reviving this thread in order to report that I have begun work on 5.2-release based images. I've made the following decisions:
  • I am eliminating XFCE, Gnome, and KDE images.
  • I am eliminating multiple system images -- there will be only one build per architecture.
  • I am retaining both i386 and amd64 architectures. If the purpose were workstation only, i386 would suffice, but I wish to retain the ability to use this system for "rescue" capability for installed amd64 platforms.
  • I will have images for booting from CD or USB mass storage. That's a total of four downloadable images -- two architectures, two bootable media types.
  • The system image will be OpenBSD 5.2-release with mutt, firefox, fluxbox, xpdf, and libreoffice.
  • If a graphical environment is chosen at boot time, the operator may then choose between fluxbox, cwm, or fvwm window managers.
  • WiFi network settings will be scripted, permitting SSID, nwakey / wpakey settings as needed.
I have not yet gotten to the point of determining if Libreoffice will actually fit within the 700MB CD limit. If it doesn't, I will replace libreoffice with abiword/gnumeric.

Edited to add: The mass storage image will include an empty FAT partition; the script will prompt to optionally mount it. The CD image cannot do the same -- instead the script will prompt to optionally mount a partition from another drive.

Last edited by jggimi; 13th August 2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: addendum, clarity
Old 13th August 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Hi jggimi ! you're doing a great job , I like the mass storage option for FAT.
I'll be pleased to be using the LiveCD.
Best of luck !

(Maybe you'd consider including a few useful firefox add-ons .. like noscript/locale changer/useragent/etc...
and for tubes ? )
Old 13th August 2012
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Thank you, daemonfowl. You've recommended perhaps a dozen different applications in this thread already. Each time, I've told you the same thing. Please re-read the thread, paying attention to my responses to your suggestions.

I am not adding any of your suggestions. If I did, I may as well add everyone's suggestions, including a suggestion to install every single distributable package.

Why limit the applications?
  • Practicality - this must fit on CD, large CD9660 on DVD or larger optical media have proven themselves unworkable. In like manner, I intend for this to fit on 1GB sticks to limit the cost for use.
  • Operational CD9660 limitations - the filesystem is limited to 2GB in size, but the El Torito boot blocks require CD9660 filesystems with limited tree structures. For the largest images -- KDE and Gnome -- I'd crafted a workaround using vnode(9) and subsidiary image files just to permit booting.
  • Compute resources - Mine are limited and I do not want to spend many days or weeks building packages.
  • Time - same as above.
  • Install to USB has been available for years -- ever since USB mass storage was bootable. As I wrote TO YOU in this thread on 29 Feb, just use FAQ 14.17.3 and CONFIGURE YOUR OWN personal USB device with all the applications YOU want.
Old 13th August 2012
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Those all sound like good changes jggimi. Keeping it simple, small and (particularly) manageable are all very good things IMO.
Old 17th August 2012
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I'm going to have to rethink my plans.

The OS (all filesets but comp52.tgz) plus mutt, xpdf, fluxbox, firefox, and libreoffice_no_java consume 1.2GB, nearly twice the size of a CD and well beyond 1GB sticks (which are 1,000,000,000 bytes or 953 MB). When I replace libreoffice with gnumeric and abiword the size only drops to 1.1 GB. Without the office products its about 626 MB, but it would have less utility; forcing users to use Google Docs, MS Office 365, or other cloud offerings.

Last edited by jggimi; 17th August 2012 at 04:26 AM. Reason: typo
Old 17th August 2012
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
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Hi jggimi !!
Maybe you'd consider replacing fluxbox itself with some lighter window manager (openbox .. ) .. epdfview instead of xpdf .. as the former uses minimal libs (no gnome libs) ..
I know you're a big admirer of Firefox .. can't you put Seamonkey instead ? then you'd omit mutt too ..
You're a hacker , you may look at the software choices made for lighter live OSes like Peppermint ,, WattOS .. Pentoo ..

( ps. : if the LiveCD is directed to BSD community mostly .. then why just bother using window managers other than default cwm/fvwm ? maybe all you need is a tweak of xdm to aulogin to X .. again this is feasible only if fluxbox REALLY takes space :-)
If the LiveCD is directed to newcomers : they are more likely to fit into 2 broad categories :
Nix-familiar : these would taste OpenBSD spices without much trouble (hehe talking as though I'm a ... LOL !)
Mac-Win herd : they would rather need a GUI-GUI boosted LiveDVD with Gnome or Kde .
Please all , please none , my friend )

Last edited by daemonfowl; 17th August 2012 at 05:04 AM.
Old 17th August 2012
backrow backrow is offline
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Firefox and Libreoffice are the pigs here. Unfortunately, I can’t think of anything as full‐featured that doesn’t take up more space. You could replace Libreoffice with siag and Firefox with NetSurf, but most people wouldn’t find that useful.

There’s no getting around it: this stuff doesn’t fit on CDs anymore. There’s no making these packages any smaller, so you’ll have to sacrifice features: a lightweight browser (NetSurf or Dillo), lightweight mail (nail), lightweight office/typesetter (siag or lout). Or drop one or more categories from that list. It’s a shame that people don’t care about fitting things in CDs anymore, making this necessary…

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
I know you're a big admirer of Firefox .. can't you put Seamonkey instead ? then you'd omit mutt too ..
Seamonkey is larger than Firefox and mutt combined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
Maybe you'd consider replacing fluxbox itself with some lighter window manager (openbox .. )
Openbox is larger than Fluxbox. Look at the package sizes.
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Old 17th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
Maybe you'd consider replacing fluxbox...
As backrow has already politely pointed out, you managed to entirely ignore application size in your argument. I will add that you have also ignored the impact of dependent applications and libraries on capacity.

If you wish to be helpful, take the advice I've given multiple times in this thread, and install the OS and your desired applications on a spare disk drive or USB device. From that you will see how much capacity is consumed and you may be able to make a rational, reasoned argument for one solution over another. Otherwise, please stop posting your suggestions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backrow View Post
Firefox and Libreoffice are the pigs here.
So is the OS.
Quote:
Unfortunately, I can’t think of anything as full‐featured that doesn’t take up more space. You could replace Libreoffice with siag and Firefox with NetSurf, but most people wouldn’t find that useful.
Agreed.
Quote:
There’s no getting around it: this stuff doesn’t fit on CDs anymore. There’s no making these packages any smaller, so you’ll have to sacrifice features.
Or yet again publish versions with different application mixes. And that may be what I end up doing. There are systems with CD drives, there are also 1GB (or smaller) sticks. I don't want to exclude their use.

Last edited by jggimi; 17th August 2012 at 11:25 AM. Reason: typos, clarity
Old 17th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daemonfowl View Post
...look at the software choices made for lighter live OSes like Peppermint...
This OS does not have a compressed file system. I am limited to CD9660 for bootable optical media, and FFS for bootable mass storage.
Old 17th August 2012
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This thread is now locked. Although well-intentioned, various members have twisted it into advocating their own wish lists & agendas such that the thread really no longer serves much purpose.
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