DaemonForums  

Go Back   DaemonForums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic

Off-Topic Everything else.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   (View Single Post)  
Old 9th June 2013
punk0x29a punk0x29a is offline
Port Guard
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Words confusion

Hello everybody!

I've got cultural, let's say, issue... Maybe it's trivial, but, neverthless, interesting from a sociological point of view.

I've noticed that folks from around US/Canada use word "hacker" pretty often and loosely. It confuses me, because in Europe nobody uses it... at all, in fact.

There is a strict hierarchy established in "computerists language" in my country. Of course, individual may belong to several groups at once. It goes something like this:

1) Scripter: knows handful of hi-level languages, and he/she will do the scripting job in a few hours. It'll work, yeah, but don't expect any firecrackers...
Usually does websites/donkey work for a programmer.

2) Programmer: Now that guy/chick will think for a moment before opening vim. Better skilled, probably with academic background, does the job for a computer scientist.

3) Computer Scientist - thinks all day about algorithms. About improvements. About mathematical proves of his/her new shiny recipe for cloud computing. You'll find his/her in an optimization cathedral at your nearest university. Don't need to be even a programmer (but usually is)

4) Hacker: Now that's a legend.
Nobody knows any hacker.
And "Anonymous" guys are NOT hackers. Not at all.
Hacker checks out operating system of a target, reads this system from source [if available] or from hex editor [if not], sees an opportunity for a sploit, drinks his sugar-aspartame flavoured soda, writes the sploit, jumps through TOR and thousands of proxies, exploits a bug, deletes logs, eats his/her potato chips, scans another target...


Well...
How does it look like in the other hemisphere?


P.S.
DDoS-persons are usually called vandals, or internet hooligans. And I cant stop laughing when watching fox/cbs/nbc/whatever news with "Anonymous Hackers Group" on a lead
Reply With Quote
  #2   (View Single Post)  
Old 9th June 2013
ocicat ocicat is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,930
Thanked 190 Times in 160 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
I've noticed that folks from around US/Canada use word "hacker" pretty often and loosely. It confuses me, because in Europe nobody uses it... at all, in fact.
I don't know who you are talking to, & it doesn't really matter.

The term "hacker" has lost its meaning from being overused by those who don't really understand. If you were to ask ten people what the word means, you will likely get ten different answers -- regardless of whether they are in the industry or not.

The problem is further complicated by the fact that many slinging the term about are doing so to associate themselves with a mystique or inflate their own prowess.

So is there confusion on the part of many? Yes, but the world still continues to rotate.
Reply With Quote
  #3   (View Single Post)  
Old 10th June 2013
punk0x29a punk0x29a is offline
Port Guard
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

huh, You're probably right... Thanks.

I didn't mean anyone in particular... Well, maybe just this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4oB28ksiIo
Reply With Quote
  #4   (View Single Post)  
Old 11th June 2013
Ninguem Ninguem is offline
Shell Scout
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 138
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
Hello everybody!



1) Scripter: knows handful of hi-level languages, and he/she will do the scripting job in a few hours. It'll work, yeah, but don't expect any firecrackers...
Usually does websites/donkey work for a programmer.
There is also the term of kiddie script referring to someone who uses a script to accomplish something- usually negative- without actually understanding the how & why behind it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
2) Programmer: Now that guy/chick will think for a moment before opening vim. Better skilled, probably with academic background, does the job for a computer scientist.
A programmer is an individual that actually knows how to read, use, and create with a given language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
3) Computer Scientist - thinks all day about algorithms. About improvements. About mathematical proves of his/her new shiny recipe for cloud computing. You'll find his/her in an optimization cathedral at your nearest university. Don't need to be even a programmer (but usually is)
Here, in the States, a computer scientist usually needs a bit of math and computer languages as prerequisites and graduate requirements for the degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
4) Hacker: Now that's a legend.
Nobody knows any hacker.
And "Anonymous" guys are NOT hackers. Not at all.
Hacker checks out operating system of a target, reads this system from source [if available] or from hex editor [if not], sees an opportunity for a sploit, drinks his sugar-aspartame flavoured soda, writes the sploit, jumps through TOR and thousands of proxies, exploits a bug, deletes logs, eats his/her potato chips, scans another target...
1. Hacker- an individual who is able to manipulate hardware or software to improve a situation. Calling yourself a hacker doesn't make you one.
2. Cracker- a bad/malicious/ ungoodly hacker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by punk0x29a View Post
Well...
How does it look like in the other hemisphere?


P.S.
DDoS-persons are usually called vandals, or internet hooligans. And I cant stop laughing when watching fox/cbs/nbc/whatever news with "Anonymous Hackers Group" on a lead
Vandal is a good name for the DDos'ers.
__________________
No signature
Reply With Quote
  #5   (View Single Post)  
Old 11th June 2013
daemonfowl daemonfowl is offline
bsdstudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: DaemonLand
Posts: 834
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Hello there !

I think both punk0x29a's taxinomy and ninguem's are valid .. word confusion may emanate from where we stand and whst syntagmatic/associative sets we consider :
If I consider what 'they WANT to achieve' , I'd say there are 3 :
Mere users < crashers/lamers < Hackers
If I consider what 'they CAN do' : then punk0x29a's post is to the point ..
The term 'hacker' must preserve its ideal epistemic attire .. Theo de Raadt is a Hacker .. Patrick Volkerding is .. jggimi/ocicat/J65nko are Programmers :-) .. the term computer scientist seems to me to be an 'academic label' that we may drop .. ie .. who can prove than Richard Stallman is to be granted the label 'computer scientist' while de Raadt is to be denied ? both hackers have contributed great pieces of software that have influenced cyberspace and IT .. and not just that .. ok ok :
In Karate terminology : we have a variety of titles on the basis of how much expertise is gained not just how many belts (dan) : shihan .. sensei .. renshi .. kyoshi .. hanshi .. O'sensei .. etc .. so we find people with different opinions about a master .. as much as about a hacker .. why ?
Because those people differ in how much they know about those they judge .. as much as about know-how to judge ..
Reply With Quote
  #6   (View Single Post)  
Old 12th June 2013
punk0x29a punk0x29a is offline
Port Guard
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 22
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
The term "hacker" has lost its meaning from being overused by those who don't really understand.
Ocicat is quite right there. There seems to be an agreement in the media/entertainment to call this way ANYONE who messes around with computers, preferably in an unlawful manner... And I don't mean no conspiracy theory here ;P That's just how the entertainment industry works, I think

Quote:
So is there confusion on the part of many? Yes, but the world still continues to rotate.
Yep, that's also true. I don't really believe that anything can be changed; with respect to this case, of course. Too much damage has been done ;-)

So, I don't think about this night and day, bouncing my head off the wall and stuff

But, what concerns me is that... Dunno how to call that.. Doublespeak, yeah. That's the good word.

Not only in nothern America. Everywere, it seems.

While loitering through this forum, I've found link to this awesome site:

http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/winstupid/1

I've been thinking... If using "MZFT ArchMacroVirus" [ (C)daemonfowl ;-) ] makes people lazy, what about overusing words that should mean something significant?

For example: word ,,Friend''

I'm not really sure if people belonging to (my_age_group.val() - 5*years) know true meaning of this word anymore - at all.

Regular behavior: Guys ,,talking" @ cigarette break with headphones plugged into their ears, listening to some pure-commercial radio stuff (I wont call it music, no way!), dazzling on telephone screens at the same time!
What a quality attention division! What a multitasking skill! ;-)
"Hey guys, wait" - says one of them, interrupting so-called "conversation", which is actually based on a mutual speech-jamming. - "Got to say hi to my girlfriend, or she'll be pissed off"
He opens up a F***book window on his phone, writes down "hi", presses down "send" button and - boom! Girl just 5 meters away (sic!) receives the message, replies "hi" and goes somewhere...
When I've asked him why he just didn't say "hi" he replied, quote:
It's easier this way...
unquote.

Well then... Something went wrong...

But, returning to main conversation:

So, to be clear, I'm not trying to insult anyone here and I don't want anybody to feel resentful because of me.

Intelligent persons wont call themselves "intelligent" , right?
Charismatic person wont say "I'm charismatic" ( unless this person is a celebrity ;-)

Quote:
Calling yourself a hacker doesn't make you one.
Why then it's so ubiquitous?

Quote:
. Hacker- an individual who is able to manipulate hardware or software to improve a situation.
Hmm... This definition would be adequate, and it clarifies situation a bit too. If that's how this term is now understood, then I'm okay with it.

As Richard Dawkins once said:
"There is nothing wrong in redefining words, as long as they're used in a clear and unambigous way"


Only the last part is something, in fact, hard to achieve...
While it's easy to catch term meaning on a forum like this, where one can find mostly adult people with no intention of
Quote:
associate themselves with a mystique or inflate their own prowess.
, watching the guy who works in cybersecurity, talks about cybersecurity and calls himself hacker is, well... Dissipative ;-)

Yeah, I know, I know... It's all just a show and stuff, must be interesting... But... Still...

O!... Or watching this kind'a "art"
http://wwwcip.informatik.uni-erlange...sd-defaced.jpg


Update:

Now, after Edward Snowden's action, I wanted to find all these documents. After typing "nsa leaked documents" in google I've got:

50+ news/blog sites with titles like: "ANONYMOUS HACKER GROUP LEAKS SECRET NSA DOCUMENTS"

Ant then, somewhere deep, there is a site with: "Anonymous leaks not-so-secret NSA documents"

And, as it turns out, those "leaked" data were available publicly for a long, long time ;-)

And I still cant find nothing but those few ugly PPT slides...

Last edited by punk0x29a; 13th June 2013 at 07:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
confusion about imaps unixjingleman FreeBSD Security 0 10th June 2011 09:59 PM
I.P addressing confusion unixjingleman OpenBSD General 7 16th January 2011 08:42 PM
Maildir and courier imap confusion pca General software and network 0 4th February 2010 01:02 PM
ip alias confusion hamba FreeBSD General 2 5th June 2008 10:23 AM
Install confusion delboy FreeBSD Ports and Packages 2 25th May 2008 09:20 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content copyright © 2007-2010, the authors
Daemon image copyright ©1988, Marshall Kirk McKusick