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Old 13th July 2014
cravuhaw2C cravuhaw2C is offline
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Default After installation, what next?

OK, I managed to install OpenBSD successfully on my first try.

After rebooting and logging in, I am presented with an xterm.

I would appreciate it if you guys were to tell me what packages, in order of priority and usefulness, that I should install?

I wish to learn the best practices for using OpenBSD.
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Old 13th July 2014
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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
OK, I managed to install OpenBSD successfully on my first try.
release or -current? This actually matters, since it will provide different answers to questions later on.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
After rebooting and logging in, I am presented with an xterm.
No, you're presented with FVWM. FVWM happens to give you an xterm when it starts.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
I would appreciate it if you guys were to tell me what packages, in order of priority and usefulness, that I should install?
What are you doing with the machine? Totally useless question otherwise.

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I wish to learn the best practices for using OpenBSD.
I have no idea what this means.
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Old 13th July 2014
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No, you're presented with FVWM. FVWM happens to give you an xterm when it starts.
We have limited information, but based on the questions so far, I am going to bet that cravuhaw2C is not using the X Windows System at all, and instead is asking how to manage from the console at /dev/ttyC0.
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Old 13th July 2014
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Oh, that's a good point.
cravuhaw2C we really need complete information from you.
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Old 13th July 2014
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release or -current? This actually matters, since it will provide different answers to questions later on.
I am using OpenBSD 5.5 (amd64, US keyboard). Is it considered release or current?


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Originally Posted by ibara View Post
No, you're presented with FVWM. FVWM happens to give you an xterm when it starts.
FVWM stands for Fluxvox, right?

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Originally Posted by ibara View Post
What are you doing with the machine?
i. Surf the internet.
ii. Email.
iii. Type letters and documents on a Microsoft Word-compatible but free and open-source word processing software.

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Originally Posted by ibara View Post
I have no idea what this means.
By "best practices" I mean the following:

(a) change/update the software sources/repositories. On Debian, I would change/update the repositories using sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list

(b) the packages that are considered essential. On a minimal install of Debian OS, one would sudo apt-get install the following essentials:

xorg
gnome-core (or lxde-core/xfce/openbox)
synaptic
gedit
gdebi (which will also install nautilus)
network-manager

What essential packages do I have to install for OpenBSD?

(b) chroot/chmod some system files to prevent them from being tampered with.

What system files on an OpenBSD OS should I chroot/chmod?
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Old 13th July 2014
cravuhaw2C cravuhaw2C is offline
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We have limited information, but based on the questions so far, I am going to bet that cravuhaw2C is not using the X Windows System at all, and instead is asking how to manage from the console at /dev/ttyC0.
I apologize if my original post does not contain enough information for you to base your reply on.

On the contrary I would very much like to use the X Windows System (just to clarify: the X Windows System is the graphical user interface, correct? the one which has snazzy icons and the gizmos on the desktop?)

Am I also right to say that even though I selected all the sets during installation, I would still have to manually install the package called xorg? (On Debian, I have to install xorg first before I install gnome-core, lxde-core or Openbox. I understand that xorg includes all the free and open-source drivers of most vendors of video chipsets.)

Excuse me for my poor knowledge of Linux/Debian/Ubuntu/OpenBSD.
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Old 13th July 2014
cynwulf cynwulf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
I am using OpenBSD 5.5 (amd64, US keyboard). Is it considered release or current?
5.5 is what is referred to as "release".

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
FVWM stands for Fluxvox, right?
No, you can search the web to find out what it stands for - took me about 1 minute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
iii. Type letters and documents on a Microsoft Word-compatible but free and open-source word processing software.
libreoffice, should be ok?

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
(a) change/update the software sources/repositories. On Debian, I would change/update the repositories using sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list
When running OpenBSD, it's customary to just read the documentation rather than posting on forums asking for help with every detail. To be clear: I am also a beginner, nowhere near on the skill level of the posters in this thread, I read the documentation on packages and ports on the web and was able to get things set up pretty quickly:

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html

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(b) the packages that are considered essential.
I think what's "essential" is already installed in the base system no?

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
On a minimal install of Debian OS, one would sudo apt-get install the following essentials[...]
Those are only essential to you. I would not even consider any of those "essential" on a Debian based system or any system for that matter. The Debian specific stuff will not be available for OpenBSD, for obvious/good reason. Packages are not called the same across different operating systems. The distributions themselves come up with these names. Thus there will be no "gnome-core". etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
What essential packages do I have to install for OpenBSD?
Once you have read the section on packages and ports and played about with the system, you will have more idea as to what you need or if you need it.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
(b) chroot/chmod some system files to prevent them from being tampered with.
I think you mean "chown", but I don't know the answer to this one. As far as I know hostname.if permissions get fixed automatically by /etc/netstart - no clue about anything else. It would depend on what you are doing and what you have installed.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
(just to clarify: the X Windows System is the graphical user interface, correct? the one which has snazzy icons and the gizmos on the desktop?)
OpenBSD's xorg is known as xenocara. You can easily search the web and read about this and what xorg / x window system is.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
Am I also right to say that even though I selected all the sets during installation, I would still have to manually install the package called xorg?
No, xenocara will be included in the base install if you selected all the sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
(On Debian, I have to install xorg first before I install gnome-core, lxde-core or Openbox. I understand that xorg includes all the free and open-source drivers of most vendors of video chipsets.)
I don't think it really matters what you had to do in Debian.

Read the packages and ports section and you will be able to install your window manager and other software of choice. First you will need to resolve your other thread and get your network connection working.

Last edited by cynwulf; 13th July 2014 at 10:57 AM. Reason: multiple typos...
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Old 13th July 2014
cravuhaw2C cravuhaw2C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
...No, you can search the web to find out what it stands for - took me about 1 minute.
FVWM doesn't stand for anything!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
libreoffice, should be ok?
I read somewhere on the internet that both LibreOffice and OpenOffice have serious security vulnerabilities.

Are there alternatives to these two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
When running OpenBSD, it's customary to just read the documentation rather than posting on forums asking for help with every detail.
I did read the documentation, try to understand it and then post questions here when I don't understand what's in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
To be clear: I am also a beginner, nowhere near on the skill level of the posters in this thread, I read the documentation on packages and ports on the web and was able to get things set up pretty quickly
You should never use yourself as the yardstick by which to measure other people's standards. In a free and democratic society in which people are democratic, allowances must and always will be made for differences in people's learning abilities and skillsets.

You may have an obvious advantage over me if you have taken up courses in IT, computer science or programming at school or college.

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I think what's "essential" is already installed in the base system no?
I don't know and the FAQs and documentation do not explicity define what's essential.

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Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Packages are not called the same across different operating systems. The distributions themselves come up with these names. Thus there will be no "gnome-core". etc...
I didn't know that....honestly. It seems that I have to re-learn some of the things when using OpenBSD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Once you have read the section on packages and ports and played about with the system, you will have more idea as to what you need or if you need it.
Frankly speaking I don't wish to spend too much time playing with the system. I have plenty of non-IT non-computer stuff to finish up.
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Old 13th July 2014
cynwulf cynwulf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
FVWM doesn't stand for anything!!!
Yes and no, as I said, I found the answer quickly (in the first result on ixquick.com)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
I read somewhere on the internet that both LibreOffice and OpenOffice have serious security vulnerabilities.

Are there alternatives to these two?
"I read somewhere on the internet", doesn't give much to go on. You wanted MS word compatibility, those fit the bill, that's all I can say. Libreoffice is available in ports and can be installed in the usual manner - this does not mean that it's had the seal of approval however.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
I did read the documentation, try to understand it and then post questions here when I don't understand what's in there.
From my perspective, it seems to me that you simply ploughed in believing that your knowledge of Debian/Linux would get you through. Now you're discovering it isn't the same thing, you're posting a lot of threads asking a lot of questions which are mostly covered in the FAQ / existing threads. You may complain about the "tone" of the forum and those responding, but you have been helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
You should never use yourself as the yardstick by which to measure other people's standards. In a free and democratic society in which people are democratic, allowances must and always will be made for differences in people's learning abilities and skillsets.
I was not. If you can read and write posts - you can read the documentation and apply it, that's the only assumption I made.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
You may have an obvious advantage over me if you have taken up courses in IT, computer science or programming at school or college.
Also wrong on all counts.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
I don't know and the FAQs and documentation do not explicity define what's essential.
Everything "essential" is installed as part of the base system.
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#Included

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
I didn't know that....honestly. It seems that I have to re-learn some of the things when using OpenBSD.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
Frankly speaking I don't wish to spend too much time playing with the system. I have plenty of non-IT non-computer stuff to finish up.
If you don't want to spend time familiarising yourself with the system, then perhaps stick with a ready to run "works out of the box" OS. There are a whole plethora of these out there which would suit your needs better,

Last edited by cynwulf; 13th July 2014 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 13th July 2014
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Quote:
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FVWM doesn't stand for anything!!!
It happens to be the default window manager on OpenBSD (you're correct: it doesn't stand for anything these days).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
I read somewhere on the internet that both LibreOffice and OpenOffice have serious security vulnerabilities.

Are there alternatives to these two?
There are. But they're not in a nice suite like LO or OOo. For word processing, you could try editors/abiword for example.

There will be another full suite when OpenBSD 5.6 is released, called Calligra. It's the old KDE KOffice modernized. It has already been imported into the -current ports tree so its inclusion in OpenBSD 5.6 is guaranteed.

As an aside, I'm not sure why there's all this hostility towards you for asking questions that this forum is designed to handle. One would think I would be the source of overt hostility...
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Old 13th July 2014
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i. Surf the internet.
ii. Email.
iii. Type letters and documents on a Microsoft Word-compatible but free and open-source word processing software.
OK, great. That's what I was looking for. There's really no way to know if you're looking for a desktop or a server otherwise, and that changes everything.

For i. - all the major browsers are included in the OpenBSD package repository. To install packages, all you have to do is type:
Code:
# pkg_add packagename
or, if you've given your user appropriate sudo rights:
Code:
$ sudo pkg_add packagename
So you have your Firefox and your Chromium. There are other webkit-based browsers if you find chromium too big for your tastes.

ii. - You have your Thunderbirds, mutts, and other email clients. Pick the one you use and pkg_add it.

iii. - LibreOffice is in ports. As is Abiword, Gnumeric, etc. So you can pkg_add the ones you want. LibreOffice has the advantage of being a full suite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
(a) change/update the software sources/repositories. On Debian, I would change/update the repositories using sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list
There is nothing analogous to this on OpenBSD. We have a single package repository, and OpenBSD already knows how to use it. At most, you would need to set PKG_PATH in your .profile, like this:
Code:
PKG_PATH=<mirrorname>/pub/OpenBSD/5.5/packages/`machine -a`/
Where <mirrorname> is whichever mirror you choose from the official list:
http://www.openbsd.org/ftp.html#http
Most people choose whichever is geographically closest to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
(b) the packages that are considered essential. On a minimal install of Debian OS, one would sudo apt-get install the following essentials:

xorg
You already have this: OpenBSD installs X by default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
gnome-core (or lxde-core/xfce/openbox)
We don't have anything analogous to gnome-core. There is gnome,
Code:
$ sudo pkg_add gnome
same with xfce
Code:
$ sudo pkg_add xfce4
or openbox
Code:
$ sudo pkg_add openbox
There are a lot more window managers; whichever one you like we probably have. Notably, we don't have lxde, MATE, or TDE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
synaptic
Already installed with X (it is part of X). I have the following line in my .xinitrc file to get my touchpad to click on tap. You may or may not need this:
Code:
xinput --set-prop 7 "Synaptics Tap Action" 0 0 0 0 1 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
gedit
Code:
 $ sudo pkg_add gedit
(Noticing a pattern yet?)
You'll get gedit "for free" if you install gnome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
gdebi (which will also install nautilus)
I'd never heard of gdebi, so I googled it. It appears to be a GUI package for Debian .deb files. There is no port of that on OpenBSD, notably because it wouldn't do anything. We don't use .deb files, we have our own package tools.

Nautilus would be:
Code:
 $ sudo pkg_add nautilus
Like gedit, you get this "for free" when installing gnome. ("For free" is shorthand for "this is a dependency of the other thing so if you install the other thing the package manager will automatically install this to fulfill dependencies.)
The OpenBSD package tools are really smart, and handle all dependencies for you. You tell it what you want, and it does the magic to make it happen and usable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
network-manager
There aren't any good GUI-based network managers for OpenBSD yet. OpenBSD does its wifi much differently than Linux (things like WPA2 are actually in the kernel in OpenBSD) so those tools don't really know how to handle it. You could write a shell script to make this easier on you; but that only works if you have a list of the wifi access points you connect to and their passwords. Otherwise, you'll be using ifconfig(8) like the rest of us. It's not more difficult, just different.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
What essential packages do I have to install for OpenBSD?
NONE! OpenBSD by default install is a fully functional OS with X already available. Just add onto it whatever programs you want.

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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
(b) chroot/chmod some system files to prevent them from being tampered with.

What system files on an OpenBSD OS should I chroot/chmod?
None. That would be dangerous. Any OS that requires you to do such a thing doesn't care about you or your security.
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Old 13th July 2014
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One of the Challenges that has been alluded to by several previous posters is that you have a plethora of options. You could learn how to configure FVWM, utilize the spartan email client and web browser that are all ready provided. Add a word processor and manually add a menu entry in the FVWM config file.

Another option is to install a Full blown Desktop realizing that it comes with some baggage in terms of bloat and security issues. The bare minimun of knowledge you would need is the package installation section in the FAQ. There is a succint, online guide to installing Gnome3 the steps of which are also replicated in the package readmes.
Similiar guides and Readme exist for XFCE4.

I put together a guide to install a simple desktop that is somewhat OS/X like and intuitive to use. It takes more time but you actually see the configs and where they are installed. It even walks you through setting up user shutdown in sudo.

Last edited by shep; 13th July 2014 at 03:18 PM. Reason: This post replicates some of Ibarra's information above.
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Old 13th July 2014
cynwulf cynwulf is offline
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Already installed with X (it is part of X). I have the following line in my .xinitrc file to get my touchpad to click on tap. You may or may not need this:
Code:
xinput --set-prop 7 "Synaptics Tap Action" 0 0 0 0 1 3
The OP refers to a graphical package management tool for Debian .deb packages rather than the similarly named touchpad hardware.
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Old 13th July 2014
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I am using OpenBSD 5.5 (amd64, US keyboard). Is it considered release or current?
It's likely -release, but we don't know for certain with just this information. That is because -current, the development branch of the OS, is still using 5.5 enumeration.

The first two lines of your dmesg, which can also be reproduced with the command $ sysctl kern.version will have "-current" in the string if you are using -current.

For more on the development cycle of OpenBSD and its nomenclature, please see FAQ 5.1.
Quote:
(a) change/update the software sources/repositories. On Debian, I would change/update the repositories using sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list
FAQ 5.1 helps here, too. Releases are on a six month development cycle -- this is typically four months of development and two months of testing. Only the most recent release and the prior release are supported, requiring users to upgrade at least once per year if they wish to have break/fix support.

Third party applications -- the ports and packages described in FAQ 15 -- are also updated in the normal course of this development, by the thousands. But they are not generally backported to match a release (-stable nomenclature) unless the update fixes a security issue -- the Project is too small and the package collection too vast to do so.

And unlike all the systems you have used before, OpenBSD requires that the OS and the third party packages remain in sync with each other.
Quote:

(b) the packages that are considered essential. On a minimal install of Debian OS, one would sudo apt-get install the following essentials:
Debian's packaging system is not used on OpenBSD.
Quote:
xorg
X.Org, packaged for OpenBSD, is part of the base OS, and if you selected the x* installation filesets during install, this is available to you. Jut not yet enabled by you.
Quote:
gnome-core (or lxde-core/xfce/openbox)
All are available as packages. If you prefer Gnome, you may be interested to know that Gnome 3 is available for 5.5-release.
Quote:
synaptic
If your hardware is recognized, the pms(4) driver will note this in your dmesg(8), the synaptics(4) driver will be loaded by X.Org if the latter is able to use it, and the synclient(1) utility can be used to manage configuration.
Quote:
gedit
Available as a package.
Quote:
gdebi (which will also install nautilus)
This is a Debian tool. OpenBSD uses its own package management system, as described in FAQ 15.
Quote:
network-manager
OpenBSD has its own network management tools, described in FAQ 6.
Quote:
chroot/chmod some system files to prevent them from being tampered with.
As the tagline states, OpenBSD is Secure by Default. You need change nothing to secure the OS. That said, OpenBSD users might provision something incorrectly in ignorance, and create an attack vector where one did not previously exist.

Third party programs (all of the thousands mentioned already) do not receive the same scrutiny and are not audited. Your own knowledge and skills are needed to ensure you do not misconfigure one of these after installation
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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
On the contrary I would very much like to use the X Windows System (just to clarify: the X Windows System is the graphical user interface, correct? the one which has snazzy icons and the gizmos on the desktop?)
Yes. FAQ 11 is your guide to using X.
Quote:
Am I also right to say that even though I selected all the sets during installation, I would still have to manually install the package called xorg?
No. But you do have to start it. By default, OpenBSD does not start X for you. You must do so, either from your user's terminal session with startx(1) or xinit(1), or, you can do so by enabling XDM -- you would add xdm_flags= on a line in your /etc/rc.conf.local file. If you install Gnome 3, you would use GDM instead, as shown in the link regarding Gnome 3 above.

There are more than 40 different window managers available with OpenBSD. It comes with three built-in: fvwm(1), which is the default, cwm(1), and twm(1). All of the rest are third party packages.
Quote:
Excuse me for my poor knowledge of Linux/Debian/Ubuntu/OpenBSD.
If you stop comparing and contrasting Linuxes with OpenBSD, and use the FAQ, you'll have an easier time.
  • The FAQ is the only place where you will find official "How to" documentation.
  • Unlike Linux systems, the BSDs pride themselves on the quality of their man pages.
The OpenBSD Journal is an unofficial location for "How to" information, but at least those are juried by editors who are Project members. All other "How to" information you find on the Internet about OpenBSD should be treated very, very carefully. Most that you find will be a) out of date, b) not directly applicable to your requirements, and c) written by newbies who may not understand the implications of their advice. (I include this website among these third party locations. Please don't ever copy and paste anything you see here blindly.)
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Originally Posted by cravuhaw2C View Post
FVWM doesn't stand for anything!!!
It stands for the F Virtual Window Manager, according to fvwm(1).
Quote:
I read somewhere on the internet that both LibreOffice and OpenOffice have serious security vulnerabilities.

Are there alternatives to these two?
Certainly. The Gnome Project has Abiword and Gnumeric, both of which are available as packages. ANd, if you install a graphical browser, such as Firefox or Chromium, both Google and Microsoft are among those who offer browser-based office automation applications among their varied cloud services.

Quote:
I don't know and the FAQs and documentation do not explicitly define what's essential.
That is because what is "essential" for you may be quite different from what is essential for me, or for anyone else. With OpenBSD, the base OS can be used for many purposes without the addition of any other software. However, as a "general purpose workstation" we will typically each add those packages we each desire. This little netbook I'm writing this post on is using OpenBSD with the addition of 71 essential (to me) packages, and with their dependencies installed I have a total of 297 third party packages installed, out of more than 8,600 available on this particular architecture (32-bit Intel, or "i386").
Quote:
Frankly speaking I don't wish to spend too much time playing with the system. I have plenty of non-IT non-computer stuff to finish up.
Then you may want to reconsider. OpenBSD is a very small project, and does not coddle new users. They are welcome, but they must become self-sufficient or else hire one of the many commercial support providers.

There is this forum, and there is the OpenBSD-newbies mailing list, and both are third party. We try to help, as best we can, here. And there are books that help. In particular, Michael W. Lucas' book Absolute OpenBSD was my bible for many years, and the new edition sits on my shelf proudly next to the well-worn, very-well-used first edition. He writes in a very accessible style, and his guidance is helpful both to the new user and to those who are very experienced. I cannot recommend his books highly enough.

If you read the Project's goals you will not see any of them refer to a pre-configured general use workstation. However, with the meta packages for Gnome, or KDE, or XFCE, the Project comes pretty close to providing this.

Yes, I know, people have been posting as I've been writing this long treatise.

Last edited by jggimi; 13th July 2014 at 03:38 PM. Reason: three typos, one thinko. :)
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