Your FreeBSD Laptop

[vermaden]

[QUOTE=Carpetsmoker;19243]I'm considering this one:
http://www5.pc.ibm.com/nl/products.n...pi=web_express

Not bad, but has several things that can be 'improoved':
T7500 (65nm) --> T8100 (45nm)
6-cell battery --> 9-cell (only 4-cell does not goes out of laptop)
1GB RAM --> 2GB RAM (can be done later)
HDD (take cheaoest) --> WD2500BEKT / WD3200BEKT

Est. Selling Price Euro Incl. VAT 2.522,80 €
Est. Selling Price Euro Excl. VAT 2.120,00 €

Madness?

I bought mine D630 with almost the same parts for about $700 (not €),
if I would go for Thinkpad it would cost about $800 (also not €).

[Carpetsmoker]

Ok, so I got the T61, but it's been one big disaster, explaining it all would be too long, but the bottom line is that the T61 I got was a DOA[1] and that it took me a month and a half to get a replacement, and they don't have the T61 series anymore or any equivalent series that's acceptable ... So I'm getting my money back (Well, I'm still working on that ... But they'd better, or else ... )

SO ...

I'm looking for a notebook again.
While Lenovo NB's (pre-T400/500 that is) are good, I've discovered the customer support is absolute and utter crap, so it's exit Lenovo for me.

I looked at the Dell E6400, it looks like a good notebook, but with two points:
o Keyboard/pointing stick, reviews are a bit mixed, some say it's good, others say it's not so good ... This is important for me because I use the keyboard and pointing stick a lot, one of the reasons for getting a T61 was the keyboard ...
This is difficult to judge, I can't just go to a store and try it out, a colleague has a D610 and D630, I will try his keyboard some time, but it's not the same model...
o Price, I don't know how you managed to get your Dell at that price vermaden, but the E6400 would go for about 1600-1800 EUR! (Payed about 1100EUR for the T61).

Another thing I might consider is a Toshiba Tecra M10 (http://explore.toshiba.com/laptops/tecra/M10), I haven't looked at reviews yet though ... (Battery life seems short).

1: To be fair, this was not Lenovo's fault, but the supplier, it might have been a production error, but more likely because of transport or usage, I also found out that the NB was already registered to someone else over 4 months ago (!!)

[vermaden]

Originally Posted by Carpetsmoker

I've discovered the customer support is absolute and utter crap, so it's exit Lenovo for me.

I always bought used laptops from common people without any support, its a lot (sometimes 3x times) cheaper then buying a new one with support and warranty, I have bought 3 Dell laptops this way, but I also considered Lenovo/IBM.

I looked at the Dell E6400, it looks like a good notebook, but with two points:
o Keyboard/pointing stick, reviews are a bit mixed, some say it's good, others say it's not so good ... This is important for me because I use the keyboard and pointing stick a lot, one of the reasons for getting a T61 was the keyboard ...

I have e6400 @ work, keyboard is very good, even better then my private Dell d630, touchpad is also better then at d630, but I do not use trackpoint(pointing stick) so I do not know if its better or not.

When I will have more time maybe I will try to put FreeBSD/OpenSolaris there, but currently XP SP3 is there.

I have also read @ MLs that peolpe had problems with e6400 (interrupts storms), also dunno about Intel driver and X4500 support, I would check that first.

o Price, I don't know how you managed to get your Dell at that price vermaden, but the E6400 would go for about 1600-1800 EUR! (Payed about 1100EUR for the T61).

I bought all my laptops @ http://allegro.pl a Polish equivalent of http://ebay.com, when I was buying my D630 (cost 1800zl = $900) the dollar was prettty low compared to zloty (money in Poland), like 1zl = $2, now after the "big crysis" it (dollar) has gone very high to about 1zl = $3.5, but they are still pretty low here:
http://allegro.pl/item547957820.html
http://allegro.pl/item547957740.html

I would not buy e6400 now, maybe after a yer or so, when FreeBSD support will be better and the laptop will be cheaper.

Another thing I might consider is a Toshiba Tecra M10 (http://explore.toshiba.com/laptops/tecra/M10), I haven't looked at reviews yet though ... (Battery life seems short).

I would not buy any other laptop then Dell Latitude or IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad, because:
1. keyboard layout (best one is dell, but IBM is pretty close)
2. batteries options (4cell (IBM), 6cell or 9cell base battery) + 3cell (IBM) and 6cell (Dell) ModularBay battery instead of DVDRW, I get 8+ hours @ FreeBSD @ Flxubox and about 7+ hours @ OpenSolaris with GNOME.
3. magnesuim case
4. quality

1: To be fair, this was not Lenovo's fault, but the supplier, it might have been a production error, but more likely because of transport or usage, I also found out that the NB was already registered to someone else over 4 months ago (!!)

What is NB?
Tell me more about that registration.

[vermaden]

@Carpetsmoker

I just tested FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE @ Dell e6400, lots of ACPI errors, without ACPI panic on CPU thermal control, I did not even tried to run x11 @ x4500, if you want to use FreeBSD and not waste time trying imho stick to Centrino 2 laptops (T61/R61/d630/d830), Montevina is currently too new and unsupported.

[Carpetsmoker]

Originally Posted by Vermaden

What is NB?
Tell me more about that registration.

A NB is a NoteBook for the lazy .

Registration is something most manufacturers offer, and for some (Like Apple) it's even required to get warranty.
For most other manufacturers, it's only required if you buy additional warranty.
Registering provides little to no benefit, it's just data mining ...

I just tested FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE @ Dell e6400, lots of ACPI errors, without ACPI panic on CPU thermal control, I did not even tried to run x11 @ x4500, if you want to use FreeBSD and not waste time trying imho stick to Centrino 2 laptops (T61/R61/d630/d830), Montevina is currently too new and unsupported.

Thanks, I hadn't even looked at FreeBSD compatibility yet.

[Daisuke_Aramaki]

Running FreeBSD7.1 on a Lenovo 3000 N200. Here is the pciconf with all the specs about the laptop

hostb0@pci0:0:0:0:      class=0x060000 card=0x383c17aa chip=0x2a008086 rev=0x0c hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = 'Mobile PM965/GM965/GL960 Express Processor to DRAM Controller'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = HOST-PCI
pcib1@pci0:0:1:0:       class=0x060400 card=0x383d17aa chip=0x2a018086 rev=0x0c hdr=0x01
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = 'Mobile PM965/GM965/GL960 Express PCIe Root Port'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = PCI-PCI
uhci0@pci0:0:26:0:      class=0x0c0300 card=0x384617aa chip=0x28348086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = USB
uhci1@pci0:0:26:1:      class=0x0c0300 card=0x384717aa chip=0x28358086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = USB
ehci0@pci0:0:26:7:      class=0x0c0320 card=0x384917aa chip=0x283a8086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '81EC1043 (?) ICH8 Enhanced USB2 Enhanced Host Controller'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = USB
pcm0@pci0:0:27:0:       class=0x040300 card=0x384e17aa chip=0x284b8086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H &SUBSYS_81EC1043&REV_02\3&11583659&0&D8'
    class      = multimedia
pcib2@pci0:0:28:0:      class=0x060400 card=0x384a17aa chip=0x283f8086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x01
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) PCIe Port 1'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = PCI-PCI
pcib3@pci0:0:28:1:      class=0x060400 card=0x384b17aa chip=0x28418086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x01
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) PCIe Port 2'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = PCI-PCI
pcib4@pci0:0:28:2:      class=0x060400 card=0x384c17aa chip=0x28438086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x01
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) PCIe Port 3'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = PCI-PCI
pcib5@pci0:0:28:3:      class=0x060400 card=0x384d17aa chip=0x28458086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x01
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) PCIe Port 4'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = PCI-PCI
uhci2@pci0:0:29:0:      class=0x0c0300 card=0x384317aa chip=0x28308086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = USB
uhci3@pci0:0:29:1:      class=0x0c0300 card=0x384417aa chip=0x28318086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = USB
uhci4@pci0:0:29:2:      class=0x0c0300 card=0x384517aa chip=0x28328086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) USB UHCI'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = USB
ehci1@pci0:0:29:7:	class=0x0c0320 card=0x384817aa chip=0x28368086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) USB2 EHCI'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = USB
pcib6@pci0:0:30:0:	class=0x060401 card=0x383f17aa chip=0x24488086 rev=0xf3 hdr=0x01
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801BAM/CAM/DBM (ICH2-M/3-M/4-M) Hub Interface to PCI Bridge'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = PCI-PCI
isab0@pci0:0:31:0:	class=0x060100 card=0x384017aa chip=0x28158086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = 'ICH8M-E (ICH8 Family) LPC Interface Controller'
    class      = bridge
    subclass   = PCI-ISA
atapci0@pci0:0:31:1:	class=0x01018a card=0x386d17aa chip=0x28508086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) Ultra ATA Storage Controllers'
    class      = mass storage
    subclass   = ATA
atapci1@pci0:0:31:2:	class=0x010601 card=0x386c17aa chip=0x28298086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801 Intel(R) 82801HEM/HBM SATA AHCI Controller'
    class      = mass storage
none0@pci0:0:31:3:	class=0x0c0500 card=0x384217aa chip=0x283e8086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = '82801H (ICH8 Family) SMBus Controller'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = SMBus
vgapci0@pci0:1:0:0:	class=0x030000 card=0x383917aa chip=0x01d710de rev=0xa1 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Nvidia Corp'
    device     = 'Quadro NVS 110M / GeForce Go 7300'
    class      = display
    subclass   = VGA
wpi0@pci0:4:0:0:	class=0x028000 card=0x10118086 chip=0x42278086 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Intel Corporation'
    device     = 'PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection'
    class      = network
bge0@pci0:6:0:0:	class=0x020000 card=0x386117aa chip=0x171314e4 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Broadcom Corporation'
    device     = 'NetLink BCM5906M Fast Ethernet PCIe'
    class      = network
    subclass   = ethernet
fwohci0@pci0:8:6:0:	class=0x0c0010 card=0x382917aa chip=0x08321180 rev=0x05 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Ricoh Company, Ltd.'
    device     = 'unknown IEEE 1394 (4 pin firewire) chip)'
    class      = serial bus
    subclass   = FireWire
none1@pci0:8:6:1:	class=0x080500 card=0x382a17aa chip=0x08221180 rev=0x22 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Ricoh Company, Ltd.'
    device     = 'R5C832, R5C843 SDA Standard Compliant SD Host Controller'
    class      = base peripheral
none2@pci0:8:6:2:	class=0x088000 card=0x382b17aa chip=0x08431180 rev=0x12 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Ricoh Company, Ltd.'
    device     = 'unknown Ricoh MMC Host Controller'
    class      = base peripheral
none3@pci0:8:6:3:	class=0x088000 card=0x382c17aa chip=0x05921180 rev=0x12 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Ricoh Company, Ltd.'
    device     = '13871043 Ricoh Memory Stick Host Controller'
    class      = base peripheral
none4@pci0:8:6:4:	class=0x088000 card=0x382d17aa chip=0x08521180 rev=0x12 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Ricoh Company, Ltd.'
    device     = 'unknown Ricoh xD-Picture Card Host Controller'
    class      = base peripheral

No issues detected so far. X, touchpad, screen resolution, everything worked straigh out of the box. After loading the appropriate modules, most of the features work. Wireless works with wpi. But disconnects often. Haven't checked the card slot though. Overall, one satified user!

[vermaden]

Dell Latitude D630 power consumption (+/- 0.5W)
screen MIN + wifi ON ---> 16.5W
screen MIN + wifi OFF --> 15.5W
screen MAX + wifi ON ---> 22.5W
screen MAX + wifi OFF --> 21.5W
screen OFF + wifi ON ---> 12.5W
screen OFF + wifi OFF --> 11.5W

Dell Latitude E6400 power consumption (+/- 0.5W)
screen MIN + wifi ON ---> 13.5W (-3)
screen MIN + wifi OFF --> 12.5W (-3)
screen MAX + wifi ON ---> 17.5W (-5)
screen MAX + wifi OFF --> 16.5W (-5)
screen OFF + wifi ON ---> 11.5W (-1)
screen OFF + wifi OFF -->  9.5W (-2)

      D630              E6400
cpu   T7300             P8400
ram   2 x 1GB DDR2 667  2 x 1GB DDR2 800
gfx   X3100             x4500
scr   CCFL WXGA+        LED WXGA+
wir   3945              5300
hdd   seagate 7200.2    seagate 7200.3
bay   DVD-RW            DVD-RW

[anemos]

Originally Posted by vermaden

@Carpetsmoker

I just tested FreeBSD 7.1-RELEASE @ Dell e6400

Me too. It doesn't recognize the NIC, nor could I get it worked with the ndis.
With 7.0 RELEASE it doesn't boot at all.
Nevertheless, it seems to be a very good machine.

[vermaden]

Originally Posted by anemos

Me too. It doesn't recognize the NIC, nor could I get it worked with the ndis.
With 7.0 RELEASE it doesn't boot at all.
Nevertheless, it seems to be a very good machine.

Machine is indeed great, it only has 4 keys less then d630 (no scroll lock any more), but all the rest is good old corporate class laptop.

I was also very surprised, that E6400 supports not only Intel VT-x CPU virtualization, but it also supports Intel VT-d (passing devices derectly to VM). Of course its more then useless @ FreeBSD, but if it comes to Xen it makes a difference.

The "problem" with E6400 is a typical one, its just too new to have good support, drivers and so, unfortunelly.

[anemos]

no scroll lock any more

Fn+F5

The "problem" with E6400 is a typical one, its just too new to have good support, drivers and so, unfortunelly.

Yeah, too bad

[vermaden]

Originally Posted by anemos

Fn+F5

Thanks mate

[drhowarddrfine]

Dell 1501 is on sale pretty cheap. I'm thinking of getting one but need wireless. It uses broadcom but I heard ndisgen resolves that?

[vermaden]

Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine

Dell 1501 is on sale pretty cheap. I'm thinking of getting one but need wireless. It uses broadcom but I heard ndisgen resolves that?

Better get some dual core with Intel graphics, if it will be used with FreeBSD, but yes, you can also use ndis to generate kernel module using windows drivers, there is even whole section for that in FreeBSD Handbook.

[drhowarddrfine]

Doesn't this have both?

[vermaden]

Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine

Doesn't this have both?

Depends which one, last one on the right has nVidia, also you should seek for x3100 gfx based laptop, cause you can have problems with newest x4500 graphics, but check that @ google and so, maybe it is wolking perfectly.

x4500 is of course little better then x3100, but as its pretty new as for FreeBSD, it may not be fully supported yet, or maybe only in CURRENT branch.

[drhowarddrfine]

I was looking at the first one on the left, cause I'm cheap. I've read fbsd works with that graphics chipset and I've also read ndisgen should make the wireless work but some have said they switched to an atheros card.

I've never used ndisgen so why would someone change cards?

[vermaden]

Originally Posted by drhowarddrfine

I was looking at the first one on the left, cause I'm cheap. I've read fbsd works with that graphics chipset and I've also read ndisgen should make the wireless work but some have said they switched to an atheros card.

I've never used ndisgen so why would someone change cards?

First check WiFi options at dell.com for that laptop, you should propably able to select other model for this laptop, get the one best supported.

ndis should also work, there is even whole section in FreeBSD Handbook.

[Carpetsmoker]

Finally got around ordering new laptop, should arrive Monday:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...:X:AAQ:DE:1123

Got a 15" now, would prefer 14", but this was a better than the 14"'s I could find (except the screen size) ... It does not matter that much IMO.

Now the question is if I can get used a German keyboard layout, or if I will get a U.S. international one...

[vermaden]

@Carpetsmoker
After I first saw it I wanted to mention fucked up keyboard

IMHO this is the one and only keyboard layout:
http://daemonforums.org/attachment.p...8&d=1220947111

I hate these "keyboards" with big enter and randomly placed [ \ ] [ / ] keys.

But besides the keyboard all the rest it great, you can only change 5400rpm drive to 7200rpm WD Black.

[Carpetsmoker]

haha, yeah, I know, I ordered this too:
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=180340991736

Anyone want to buy a German T61 keyboard? ;-)