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Old 31st January 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Default General OpenBSD navigation between windows

Hi All,

As a recent OpenBSD convert (from Mac OSX), I'm slowly learning the shortcut differences for mainstay apps I use such as Firefox. However I'm actually having the most difficulties with the tabbing between the main xterm window (the one that opens straight away after logging in - isn't this called "X" ?) and Firefox once I load it from the X window. That is, let's say I download a file in firefox, and then I want to return to the X window to copy the file to a different directory, I can't seem to do so without closing the Firefox app altogether.

Is it possible to somehow tab between them like I used to on Mac OS using CMD-TAB or similar?
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Old 31st January 2023
frcc frcc is offline
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I am not sure about tabbing as I usually don't use it in Firefox other than opening a new tab for search purposes. However, files downloaded from Firefox are usually sent to /home/user/Download or Downloads directory as default. Therefore if configured so in your system you can .....................
open a terminal window anywhere under your control......
use the "mv" or "cp" command to re-locate the desired file to any directory in /home/user/ you choose.
That being said there are people here who might understand your question better than I and of course much more able to answer your question with clarity and accuracy.
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Old 31st January 2023
J65nko J65nko is offline
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It depends on the Window Manager you are using. OpenBSD default is fvwm2 and that is what I am using. This WM (window manager) has 9 desktop screens, and I just switch to one that is not in use and open an Xterm there.

You can also minimize your browser to an icon and thus stopping the browser from overlapping your initinal xterm. This only works if you started firefox and put it in the background with "&".
Code:
$ firefox &
So which WM are you using?
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Old 1st February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J65nko View Post
It depends on the Window Manager you are using. OpenBSD default is fvwm2 and that is what I am using. This WM (window manager) has 9 desktop screens, and I just switch to one that is not in use and open an Xterm there.

You can also minimize your browser to an icon and thus stopping the browser from overlapping your initinal xterm. This only works if you started firefox and put it in the background with "&".
Code:
$ firefox &
So which WM are you using?
Hi J65nko (Jasenko?) I'm using fvwm2 as I'm running a fairly unmodified OpenBSD 7.2 recent install with just Firefox and a couple other third party software installed.

I'm trying to implement your suggestion of switching between the 9 screen's. I need to know:
(1) Whats the shortcut key combination for switching between these screens
(2) Can I create multiple fvwm2 windows?, and if so how (a command typed into the command line of the first fvwm2 window?), and then how do I distribute them to the various other 9 screens?
(3) Is it even possible to do tasks in each (fvwm2 and firefox) whilst they're running simultaneously because right now I've tried listing the directory to find the "Home/Downloads" folder that Firefox is allegedly saving all my files to, and it does nothing, and won't do anything till I close firefox... I havent modified any system resource settings yet from default if that might be relevant...

Another small query: How do I highlight a heap of text with a single shortcut in OpenBSD. In Mac I just use CMD-A... There must be an equivalent for OpenBSD?
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Old 2nd February 2023
J65nko J65nko is offline
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  1. RE "switching screens"

    There is a small icon with 9 rectangles at the bottom right of the screen. Each of these icons represent a full screen/desktop.

    To switch to another screen, just left-click on one of these rectangles and you will be presented with an empty screen.
  2. RE multiple windows

    Left-click your mouse on the empty screen, a "root" menu appears, select "Xterm" from this menu.
    Now you can start an application or program from this xterm. You also can create multiple xterms.
    You also could do something like $ ls -l /Downloads | less And copy the file with $ cp Downloads/MyImportant.pdf .

    Or you can install the lynx package. This is a text browser that I use as a poor man's file browser. When it is installed you can do $ lynx Downloads to see the files there.
  3. RE Selecting text

    In some applications, for example firefox or libreoffice, you can use CNTRL-A to copy text.
    In an xterm you can select text by left-click on the mouse and mouse the cursor down. The text will be highlighted/darkened. In another xterm you can press the mouse "middle-button" to paste the text.
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Old 2nd February 2023
jmccue jmccue is offline
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In fvwm(1) I have these for firefox-esr:

Code:
Key Tab		A	M	RaiseLower
And in "StartFunction" I have

Code:
+ I Module FvwmAuto 200 Raise Nop
On cwm(1) I stay with the defaults and I can use <alt><tab>. I use cwm on the laptop monitor, fvwm when using the external monitor.
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Old 3rd February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J65nko View Post
  1. RE "switching screens"

    There is a small icon with 9 rectangles at the bottom right of the screen. Each of these icons represent a full screen/desktop.

    To switch to another screen, just left-click on one of these rectangles and you will be presented with an empty screen.
  2. RE multiple windows

    Left-click your mouse on the empty screen, a "root" menu appears, select "Xterm" from this menu.
    Now you can start an application or program from this xterm. You also can create multiple xterms.
    You also could do something like $ ls -l /Downloads | less And copy the file with $ cp Downloads/MyImportant.pdf .

    Or you can install the lynx package. This is a text browser that I use as a poor man's file browser. When it is installed you can do $ lynx Downloads to see the files there.
  3. RE Selecting text

    In some applications, for example firefox or libreoffice, you can use CNTRL-A to copy text.
    In an xterm you can select text by left-click on the mouse and mouse the cursor down. The text will be highlighted/darkened. In another xterm you can press the mouse "middle-button" to paste the text.
Thanks Jasenko, now we're getting somewhere!.
Regarding [3]:
I've created a new Xterm window that I notice I am now able to do commands that work, unlike when I tried entering commands in the original Xterm window that I started FFox out of. I've tried to find this all important FFox Downloads folder by doing an
Code:
ls -l
command at the $ prompt (non root). It shows just the Downloads folder, but not one that has anything I've saved from FFox in it. Indeed its a directory I created previously to save typescripts etc.. So I looked at finding the proper Downloads dir by navigating to the base drive using
Code:
 cd /
Using "ls -l" after doing this showed the "Home" folder that everyone so far seems to indicate as housing the FFox related "Downloads" dir within. So I did "cd home" before listing its contents "ls" to see that it did indeed have this Downloads folder. However when I went into it, it was a repeat of the first Downloads folder that I found. Is this because I need to use "su" and go into root before accessing it to gain access to this Home/Downloads folder instead of being diverted back to the non root downloads folder which is what I'm guessing happened when I tried navigating into the Home/Downloads folder without being logged in as root (#)?
In case you're wondering why I'm not trying this right now to confirm, I'm aware that from a security perspective its not wise to be in root whilst connected to the net as a general rule. I understand that in these cases I can use a "doas" command instead, to temporarily allow root for just that line that I'm entering. Is this understanding right? If so is there a quick way to set this up because when I try I get an error msg about doas not being enabled in a doas.conf file...
Thanks again for your help thus far..
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Old 4th February 2023
J65nko J65nko is offline
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First make things easier by customizing your shell prompt PS1

Code:
$ pwd
/home/adriaan/Downloads

$ cd ..

$ pwd
/home/adriaan

$ PS1="\u@\h[\w]"
$ export PS1

adriaan@lenap[~]cd Downloads

adriaan@lenap[~/Downloads]ls  
35018111_Xelos_32_40_Media_2w_NL.pdf
LogCabinPatternInterlacedSprang.pdf
...
access_point_settings.gws
cross-stitch-diagram.jpg
As you can see your prompt now will show your user name and the working directory.

To make it permanent you can add it your .profile:

Code:
driaan@lenap[~]cat .profile
# $OpenBSD: dot.profile,v 1.7 2020/01/24 02:09:51 okan Exp $
#
# sh/ksh initialization

PATH=$HOME/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/games
export PATH HOME TERM

PS1="\u@\h[\w]"
export PS1
For your other questions that are basic shell skills, see http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Unix/

Please don't become root at your current skill level. It is easy to wipe out your complete system with one single typo
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Old 4th February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J65nko View Post
First make things easier by customizing your shell prompt PS1

Code:
$ pwd
/home/adriaan/Downloads

$ cd ..

$ pwd
/home/adriaan

$ PS1="\u@\h[\w]"
$ export PS1

adriaan@lenap[~]cd Downloads

adriaan@lenap[~/Downloads]ls  
35018111_Xelos_32_40_Media_2w_NL.pdf
LogCabinPatternInterlacedSprang.pdf
...
access_point_settings.gws
cross-stitch-diagram.jpg
As you can see your prompt now will show your user name and the working directory.
Is there a way I can copy/paste these lines into the xterm window I've got running in a separate window. I've just spent a few minutes going back and forth between the windows (I understand there's no shortcut key combo for going between screens?) to type out character for character the PS1 line you indicated.

After entering
$ PS1="\u@\h[\w]"
$ export PS1


I found no change in the prompt other than the $ sign turning into
Code:
>
Am I missing something?
Quote:
For your other questions that are basic shell skills, see http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Unix/
Thanks, I'm going to take a look and see what I can learn..
Quote:
Please don't become root at your current skill level. It is easy to wipe out your complete system with one single typo
I've regularly been running as root in the times I've sproradically run OpenBSD, and found it necessary for installing / setting up OpenVPN daemon (failed) and adding packages etc. but no system detonations yet. I think I've got some helpful instincts from a childhood where I was regularly playing around with the DOS prompt on an old 486 x86 to install illicit gamez
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Old 4th February 2023
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Head_on_a_Stick Head_on_a_Stick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
Is there a way I can copy/paste these lines into the xterm window
Use the PRIMARY buffer: left-click and drag to select the text then middle-click to paste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
I understand there's no shortcut key combo for going between screens?
There's no default shortcut but you can create one in ~/.fvwmrc using the GotoPage built-in function, as described in the fvwm man page that you clearly haven't bothered to read.

Reading man pages is *very* important in OpenBSD. I suggest you start practising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
I found no change in the prompt other than the $ sign turning into
Code:
>
That's a PS2 prompt and it's appearance suggests that you've used mismatched quote types (ie, started with a single quote then tried to finish with a double quote or vice versa).
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Old 5th February 2023
J65nko J65nko is offline
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You should not copy the "$" prompt. That is probably the reason for your "<" prompt
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Old 6th February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head_on_a_Stick View Post
Use the PRIMARY buffer: left-click and drag to select the text then middle-click to paste.


There's no default shortcut but you can create one in ~/.fvwmrc using the GotoPage built-in function, as described in the fvwm man page that you clearly haven't bothered to read.

Reading man pages is *very* important in OpenBSD. I suggest you start practising


That's a PS2 prompt and it's appearance suggests that you've used mismatched quote types (ie, started with a single quote then tried to finish with a double quote or vice versa).
Ahh Matthew, how good of you to reply here after going AWOL after I pointed out how you were trying to teach me how to suck eggs back in this thread here: https://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=12281&page=2

Thanks nonetheless for actually posting something useful in reply (for a change).

Having said this, I see you've taken the lazy approach of basically saying "refer to the manual" which is based on the lore in OBSD circles of suggestions that the man pages are far better than they actually are. In reality they're written by nerds who write only in a way that makes sense for fellow nerds, and not real ppl who are budding nerds. To give you an immediate example, I've just tried using the man pages you linked to do a search for touchpad, trackpad and mouse to try and figure out what the middle button equivalent must be on this HP Probook 6470B which only has the touchpad and two buttons above and below it (no middle button). The man pages yielded no result but for the mouse, and that clearly doesn't cover anything to do with setting up the touchpad....

Last edited by Entropic; 6th February 2023 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 6th February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J65nko View Post
You should not copy the "$" prompt. That is probably the reason for your "<" prompt
I think you're falling into some basic stereotyping here. I obviously wasn't able to paste the recommended lines as I haven't yet figured out this functionality in the absence of a "middle button" per my question asking how to actually do this. I've merely included it to show that I'm also doing it from the non root command line in the same way the post indicated originally...

It is possible that I used a single and the double quote symbol when transposing the recommended line to my own xterm window, however, so I'm going to re-try it now with care for the type of quotation used.
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Old 6th February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
I think you're falling into some basic stereotyping here. I obviously wasn't able to paste the recommended lines as I haven't yet figured out this functionality in the absence of a "middle button" per my question asking how to actually do this. I've merely included it to show that I'm also doing it from the non root command line in the same way the post indicated originally...

It is possible that I used a single and the double quote symbol when transposing the recommended line to my own xterm window, however, so I'm going to re-try it now with care for the type of quotation used.
EDIT: I've now successfully applied that command line (PS1 = xxxxx) to customise my command line prompt, and used vi to successfully update my .profile with same. Thanks for your advice on this.

Now, regarding the finding of files I've downloaded in FFox. This remains outstanding. I've just retried finding them by going through various folders in root and when, for example, I go to root/home/downloads it only shows /noroot as a further subdirectory (No FFox downloads).. So where do I find my FFox downloads?
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Old 6th February 2023
J65nko J65nko is offline
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Did you look at /home/entropic/Downloads?

This assumes entropic is your user name and your home directory name.
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Old 6th February 2023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
after going AWOL
Please accept my profuse apologies for not seeking your permission to leave the other thread. What a terrible person I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
I've just tried using the man pages you linked to do a search for touchpad, trackpad and mouse to try and figure out what the middle button equivalent must be on this HP Probook 6470B which only has the touchpad and two buttons above and below it (no middle button). The man pages yielded no result but for the mouse, and that clearly doesn't cover anything to do with setting up the touchpad....
That's strange because I found this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmouse(4)
mouse.tp.tapping
Contacts on the touchpad that are immediately released again can be mapped to mouse button clicks. This list of three parameters configures these mappings, in the order:

one-finger,two-finger,three-finger

Setting a parameter to a positive value enables that tap gesture and maps it to the given mouse button. To disable all three tap gestures at once, provide the single value of 0. Conversely, a single non-zero value will enable one-finger, two-finger, and three-finger tap gestures with their default mappings of left button, right button, and middle button, respectively. If, within a short time interval, a second touch follows a tap gesture mapped to a left-button click, the button-up event is not issued until that touch ends (“tap-and-drag”).
https://man.openbsd.org/wsmouse#mouse.tp.tapping

And also
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaptics(4)
Middle button emulation

Since most synaptics touchpad models don't have a button that corresponds to the middle button on a mouse, the driver can emulate middle mouse button events. If you press both the left and right mouse buttons at almost the same time (no more than EmulateMidButtonTime milliseconds apart) the driver generates a middle mouse button event.
https://man.openbsd.org/synaptics#Mi...tton_emulation

The wsmouse(4) driver is the default so use an X.org configuration file to force synaptics(4) instead. I would explain in more detail but I don't want to be accused of any more egg-related infractions...
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Old 7th February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J65nko View Post
Did you look at /home/entropic/Downloads?

This assumes entropic is your user name and your home directory name.
On installing OpenBSD back in mid November last year I created two users. The first was what I understand to be the root user whose name I can see now at the xterm command prompt in the "u@<username>" format since using that PS1 command from yesterday. Then there was a second (non root) user that I notice I have to login through at the FVWM2 window that my OpenBSD install boots to.

It's only this secondary user that has a home/<secondary user>/Downloads DIR and it doesn't contain anything I've downloaded from FFox... So how do I find this <Root user> home/downloads DIR where the FFox downloads might be? Or any other idea where they'd be?
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Old 7th February 2023
Entropic Entropic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Head_on_a_Stick View Post
Please accept my profuse apologies for not seeking your permission to leave the other thread. What a terrible person I am.
I'm not going to debate this likely accurate description of yourself. What I will point out is that I asked you "Are you serious?" after you asked whether I'd used the DD command when, in one of your replies from just a day or two earlier in the same thread, you'd replied to a question I had following the use of this very command. In other words you either had some form of amnesia, or (more likely) you had full awareness of the fact I'd already tried the command, and saw it as a chance to play passive aggressive games by rhetorically asking whether I'd used it...

Quote:
That's strange because I found this:

https://man.openbsd.org/wsmouse#mouse.tp.tapping

And also

https://man.openbsd.org/synaptics#Mi...tton_emulation

The wsmouse(4) driver is the default so use an X.org configuration file to force synaptics(4) instead. I would explain in more detail but I don't want to be accused of any more egg-related infractions...
By saying it's strange you're inferring that it was quite easy to find this guide to getting the touchpad/mouse working in OpenBSD. In other words you're saying it's not strange, as a novice looking to get their mouse/trackpad working, to search for "WSMOUSE" or "Synaptics" as a search term in the manual pages, but to type "Mouse" or "Touchpad" is... Again I ask "Are you serious"....

Furthermore, what the hell am I supposed to do with the advice contained therein. It's all description and no practical explanation of how I might actually go in and configure the touchpad via the command line...
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Old 7th February 2023
J65nko J65nko is offline
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Re: root

An OpenBSD install already comes with a root user/account. If you created two users then they cannot be root.

What is the output of $ ls -l /home?
Or do a recursive directory listing piped through a pager: $ ls -lR /home | less
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Old 7th February 2023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
In other words you're saying it's not strange, as a novice looking to get their mouse/trackpad working, to search for "WSMOUSE" or "Synaptics" as a search term in the manual pages, but to type "Mouse" or "Touchpad" is... Again I ask "Are you serious"....
Using apropos touchpad does list the synaptics(4) man page so it doesn't seem like such a stretch to me. I will allow that the wsmouse(4) page is a little more obtuse though. Are you familiar with search engines? They can be very useful in such circumstances and would help stop you behaving like a help vampire, which would benefit everybody, including yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropic View Post
what the hell am I supposed to do with the advice contained therein. It's all description and no practical explanation of how I might actually go in and configure the touchpad via the command line...
Do you have problems reading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmouse(4)
Touchpad input is processed in one of two modes: In “absolute mode”, the wsmouse driver generates touch events. Absolute mode is activated by synaptics(4). In “compatibility mode”, which is the default, wsmouse converts the input internally and generates mouse events. wsconsctl(8) can query and set several configuration parameters for this mode. The composite field names have the form mouse[N].tp.field where N is the index of the wsmouse device. If N is omitted, commands apply to /dev/wsmouse0.
The wsconsctl(8) man page explains exactly how to use that command but I'll reproduce it here because I'm feeling generous:
Code:
wsconsctl mouse.tp.tapping=1
^ That enables tap-to-click with a three-finger tap translating to a middle click.

To make the change permanent add this line to /etc/wsconsctl.conf:
Code:
mouse.tp.tapping=1
Again, as clearly described in wsconsctl.conf(5). Can you see a pattern here?

And to use synaptics(4) instead of wsmouse(4) follow my instructions given in this thread:

https://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=10902

A search engine would have found that for you (I've just used that technique to find it myself) but help vampires such as you seem allergic to such methods and prefer instead to spend their time whining and insulting those trying to help.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick; 7th February 2023 at 07:19 AM. Reason: corrected wsconscrtl command, oops :-)
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