Bundle BSD With 3rd Party Programs?

[Trihex]

Who here would like to see FreeBSD and OpenBSD be distributed with a full suite of 3rd party programs bundled in with the base system? (I've never used NetBSD so forgive me for not having first hand knowledge of its distribution.)

Well, like Linux.

I have FreeBSD and OpenBSD laptops. Whether I use ports to build my programs for FreeBSD or pkg with OpenBSD, I have a limited number of programs I always install that over time I've found to suit my needs for using BSD as a desktop OS and build them all before ever invoking X and booting to the desktop.

I use my laptops for everyday general desktop use. Surfing the web, listening to music, watching videos, manipulating images, ripping CD's, burning files to a DVD, using text editors, working with files and file managers from Fluxbox pretty much covers it for me. There is not one thing I can't do on my BSD machines that I would be able to on a Linux box.

I have no use for a full-blown Office suite or just about any other program than those I use on a regular basis. If by chance I happen to need something else I know how to build it myself.

Just askin'.

[LeFrettchen]

Originally Posted by Trihex

I have a limited number of programs I always install that over time I've found to suit my needs for using BSD as a desktop OS and build them all before ever invoking X and booting to the desktop.

Same for me.
That's why I created 3 or 4 shell scripts which install all I need, and those scripts are on a USB bundle.

I prefer a clean and light base install.
Just my opinion...

[PapaParrot]

Who here would like to see FreeBSD and OpenBSD be distributed with a full suite of 3rd party programs bundled in with the base system? (I've never used NetBSD so forgive me for not having first hand knowledge of its distribution.)

Not me,
I wouldn't have any use for that, I only use a few packages, I keep a list of them,
it is easy and simple to install the packages I use.
I would not want something with a bunch of other stuff that I don't need or want bundled in.
That is one of the main reasons I moved away from Linux, Debian in particular,... they "bundle in" all kinds of uneeded , unwanted junk,... that they decided every body should have.

[sacerdos_daemonis]

Originally Posted by Trihex

Who here would like to see FreeBSD and OpenBSD be distributed with a full suite of 3rd party programs bundled in with the base system?

That is counter to the BSD philosophy, escpecially OpenBSD. The design is a small, stable, well-working base system that third-party applications and programmes are added to. It also allows only having the applications the user wants to have.

When I used Debian I only installed the based system, then the few things I wanted. Similar to OpenBSD. If I did not want a bundle of crap I do not use when I used Linux, why would I want it with BSD? (I hate DMs, let alone DEs.) The last thing I want is the BSDs following the path of Linux.

[IdOp]

I voted "no" because -- conceptually -- I like NetBSD and OpenBSD more or less the way they are.

I'm not sure it makes much difference in practice though. Whether it's Slackware or NetBSD, I install what I want, and there's some more that comes along for the ride for varying reasons, but it's nowhere near a "full suite". If an OS forced me to download and/or install a huge amount of stuff that I didn't want, I wouldn't use it (not on a "real computer" anyway, as long as there was a choice).

[Trihex]

Originally Posted by IdOp

I voted "no" because -- conceptually Whether it's Slackware or NetBSD, I install what I want, and there's some more that comes along for the ride for varying reasons, but it's nowhere near a "full suite".

What I had in mind when I said "full suite" of programs was what comes with a Live CD of Debian 8.

LibreOffice, 3 text editors, PCManFM, Xarchiver, mplayer, GIMP, Xsane, Mutt, Deludge BitTorrent client, 3 calculators, WiFi manager, etc.

[IdOp]

Originally Posted by Trihex

What I had in mind when I said "full suite" of programs was what comes with a Live CD of Debian 8.

LibreOffice, 3 text editors, PCManFM, Xarchiver, mplayer, GIMP, Xsane, Mutt, Deludge BitTorrent client, 3 calculators, WiFi manager, etc.

Yup that's the kind of thing I thought you meant (though I'm not familiar with Debian). Slackware has lots of bloated stuff too (one of the biggies being KDE) but I don't end up with anything near a full install of it either.

[ibara]

This is literally exactly what the siteXX.tgz set in OpenBSD is for.
https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#site

[Funkygoby]

Define 3rd party. Define base (the install media?).
gcc is GNU but it is in OBSD "base".

Define Linux.
Debian standard install media is the "netinstall" iso. Doesn't have any 3rd party program you mentionned but a web browser and a text-editor: resp w3m and vim-tiny.

Are you aware of PC-BSD (= somethingOS nowadays)?

[jggimi]

Trihex, I have walked this path before. For some years, I published live-media distributions based on OpenBSD, with base, XFCE, Gnome, and KDE variants. Even though they these had simple use-cases (OS familiarization, hardware testing, or rescue), the most common complaint I received was "Why didn't you include <application>?"

One complaint I received was, "Couldn't you just include EVERYTHING??"

(No, I'm not resuming production. The need evaporated once USB booting became ubiquitous, and optical media drives faded away as standard equipment.)

[blackhole]

Originally Posted by jggimi

One complaint I received was, "Couldn't you just include EVERYTHING??"

They walk among us...

[Trihex]

Originally Posted by Funkygoby

Define 3rd party. Define base (the install media?).
gcc is GNU but it is in OBSD "base".

Did you not read my second post or are you a Debian user leaping to its defense to troll me? This and your prior posts seem to hint at it... I refrained from posting this poll one full day due to this possibility. If it becomes a matter of contention I give full approval in Admin locking the thread.

I defined 3rd party programs as:

LibreOffice, 3 text editors, PCManFM, Xarchiver, mplayer, GIMP, Xsane, Mutt, Deludge BitTorrent client, 3 calculators, WiFi manager, etc.

The default FreeBSD install comes with the base system and a terminal. Yes, it does include vi and TWM. The OpenBSD base install included Xenocara as well.

That is a far cry from the list of 3rd party programs, which is far from complete, I provided from the Debian Jessie Live Disk and what you get when you install Debian Jessie from the Live Disk

Originally Posted by Funkygoby

Define Linux.
Debian standard install media is the "netinstall" iso. Doesn't have any 3rd party program you mentionned but a web browser and a text-editor: resp w3m and vim-tiny.

Again, my second post defines just what distro and medium I had in mind.

What I had in mind when I said "full suite" of programs was what comes with a Live CD of Debian 8.

I loaded my Debian Jessie GNU/Linux Live Disk and took the names of the 3rd party programs I listed directly from it. Boot one up yourself and check to see if one program I listed is not included with the Debian Jessie Live Disk with the LXDE option, including many more.

Originally Posted by Funkygoby

Are you aware of PC-BSD (= somethingOS nowadays)?

Yes, I helped beta test PC-BSD beginning at v0.7.3 in 2003 and continued until around September 2005 when I switched to vanilla FreeBSD. I am also aware of GhostBSD and MidnightBSD among others, including TrueOS.

Are you aware there is a difference in vanilla FreeBSD, OpenBSD and PC-BSD, and that I specified FreeBSD and OpenBSD in my post?

FreeBSD as you obtain it through freebsd.org and OpenBSD from openbsd.org to be exact.

[ibara]

Originally Posted by jggimi

(No, I'm not resuming production. The need evaporated once USB booting became ubiquitous, and optical media drives faded away as standard equipment.)

Sounds like the need to do this again for USB sticks is on the rise.

Originally Posted by jggimi

One complaint I received was, "Couldn't you just include EVERYTHING??"

The benefit of doing this on USB: now you really can including EVERYTHING! Just have to require a minimum of a 128GB USB stick.

[Maxnix]

Originally Posted by Trihex

The default FreeBSD install comes with the base system and a terminal. Yes, it does include vi and TWM.

The default FreeBSD install doesn't include TWM: it exists as a port by itself or is part of the xorg meta-port (indeed the executable resides in /usr/local/bin).

[Trihex]

Originally Posted by Maxnix

The default FreeBSD install doesn't include TWM: it exists as a port by itself or is part of the xorg meta-port (indeed the executable resides in /usr/local/bin).

My mistake, thank you for clarifying that.

[Maxnix]

Originally Posted by Trihex

My mistake, thank you for clarifying that.

No problem. Let's consider this as another point in flavour of FreeBSD's default install minimalism.

[blackhole]

Originally Posted by Trihex

Did you not read my second post or are you a Debian user leaping to its defense to troll me? This and your prior posts seem to hint at it... I refrained from posting this poll one full day due to this possibility. If it becomes a matter of contention I give full approval in Admin locking the thread.

You made a silly thread and got a silly answer... (I don't see any evidence of "trolling").

[Trihex]

Originally Posted by cynwulf

You made a silly thread and got a silly answer... (I don't see any evidence of "trolling").

It was directly in response to many people as of late stating they used Linux instead of BSD because it came pre-rolled with programs absent from the default install of FreeBSD and OpenBSD, and wishing BSD could be more like Linux.

It has become a matter of trolling in BSD vs Linux comparison threads as of late, and not just in one forum, and looked like the beginning of it in this one. Either he did not read my second post, where I had already clearly outlined the answers to at least the first 2 questions he asked, or he was trolling IMO.

Again, if that becomes the case I not only give my approval of the thread being locked but ask that it be so to keep the peace.

Yes, I already knew the answer to the question I asked, silly as it might seem. This is a forum dedicated to BSD users. I just wanted to document it that we, as BSD users, are good with things the way they are and do not want the Linuxization of BSD.

[Maxnix]

Originally Posted by Trihex

I just wanted to document it that we, as BSD users, are good with things the way they are and do not want the Linuxization of BSD.

+1

[blackhole]

Keeping crap out of the base system is kind of encompassed in the project goals of OpenBSD:

https://www.openbsd.org/goals.html

I can't really say much about the other BSD derived OS - limited experience.