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Old 22nd August 2022
J65nko J65nko is offline
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Default I am a small scale electricity producer now

Last Wednesday, after a long delay because of global supply line issues, nine solar panels were placed on the flat roof of my garage.
It is not the most optimal place for them, The optimal place would be the roof, but as the roof tiles contain 15% asbestos, no drilling is allowed, ruling out placement there.

Up to now the panels generated 37.7 kWh and according the monitoring app this reduced 37.6 kg of CO2.

I participated in a project run by the local municipalies here in the south of Noord-Brabant. They provide a loan at very low interest rate, and guarantee good working and servicing for 15 years. The company they subcontracted for this project, also takes care of filing a VAT tax return, registration as power producer with the electricity company.

Because my house was built in 1979, the fuse and earth leakage circuit breaker gear had to be replaced by a modern version, suitable for delivery to the grid. This was also included in the project. We already had an 'smart' electrical meter suitable for transferring surplus electricity to the grid.
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Old 22nd August 2022
frcc frcc is offline
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I just completed a much smaller emergency system at my home. I use it in emergencies to power just essentials, frig, freezer, small ac, microwave, washing machine, wtr pump etc. Although it is too small for 220v it does supply those essentials in an emergency. It is however sized so that "if" i were to downsize to say a cabin it would be completely self sufficient and could be its own sole source of power. It is nice to see that these products are becoming available at reasonable rates.
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Old 22nd August 2022
J65nko J65nko is offline
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Mine is connected to the electrical grid. Cannot you connect yours to the grid? Isn't it a waste of the electricity you can produce but don't make use of?

Up to 2025 the Dutch electricity companies are legally obliged to what they call "salderen" in Dutch. At the end of the year they know how much kWh I used . Then they have to deduct the kWh that I delivered to the grid, and I have to pay the balance ("saldo").
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Old 23rd August 2022
frcc frcc is offline
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Yes, it can be connected to the grid.
I designed it for Emergency Use (mostly) OR to totally power a small cabin off-grid. In addition it is expandable.
We also have the ability to sell back power to our provider. Unlike the EU, at least for now our provider here in this part of Texas is very reasonable, producing a good segment of their output from solar and wind. That is indicated on our monthly invoice. My summer costs are usually less than $140.00 with 90F+ days and less than $80.00 average throughout the winter. So investing 40-50K does not make much sense figuring the life of the system and many other variables. It simply is a matter of how much one wants to spend for his/her situation and what use you expect to get from it. In Texas we have weather emergencies all the time, so solar panels a solar generator package and a small inverter generator and of course a tornado shelter are good investments. Emergency food and water are a good idea here too! Besides emergency power i keep rain water storage for garden and clean water storage for drinking and at least 6mo food storage. All can be powered by my small system. I have invested less than 8K on it. So for me its the ticket. The system is also able to be moved to another home at very little expense.
In addition i spent 30 years running fossil and nuclear power plants giving me a fair grasp of components that on a small scale can provide what the big power providers do. In looking closely at various systems I (personally) see a few week spots in a typical total home system. These weak spots are not limited to inverter life, battery life and cycles as well as other components that may or may not be available when maintenance is needed. In my opinion and at this point in our technology solar power is simply not anywhere near efficient as large industrial power plant production. That is not to say green goals and improvement in solar technology is not desired. They are making progress and i expect them to continue to. An example is industrial solar panels in the 500 watt range where their lifespan is now approaching 25-30 years. Pro's and Con's exist in that your home value may be increased, system pay off approaches common sense if you stay in your home for a long period, etc, etc, etc, etc, I could go on about battery design and cycles, inverter limits, computer control of the system and availability of parts. I understand the desire to power all of your home and sell excess to the grid, but the story does not end there.

If I were living in the EU, .and. in your age bracket my system might look more like yours.

I think this segment is off-topic and i am certainly not posting this to start a Ka-Fuffle as Judge Judy would say, but if the USA and EU had not provoked the bear, energy and food costs would not be in the stratosphere.

Last edited by frcc; 23rd August 2022 at 01:49 PM. Reason: clarity, additional info
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Old 25th August 2022
frcc frcc is offline
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Since this is off-topic. There are a few more things to consider when going green with wind, solar or other forms of power generation.

When you invest significant amounts of money into a system that is capable of running your entire home or even portions of it, and even providing excess power to the grid your power provider may enjoy certain benefits.
One is that they can scale back on their "base load" or "spinning reserve" construction. This saves your power provider significant amounts of money on construction plans, real estate, new capital investment in plant equipment, manpower, and transmission and distribution and of course regulation. Since you are building a mini power plant for them they loose some revenue but save big on capital investments. They can take your excess power that is generated at your home and distribute it to those who do not generate power. This is a win win for them as they pay you a certain rate and bill those who don't generate a slightly higher rate, with little involvement.
You now take the hit with capital investment, interest, maintenance and repair instead of them.

Some power providers even finance their own systems making the arrangement even more attractive to them.
Many people even take out low interest loans or take equity out of their home to build their power system.

Then there are other loan entities that specialize in financing these systems at a slightly higher but attractive finance rate. A win win for them too. Government tax incentives and low interest loans help to offset some of the cost of home systems.

In aggregate, there are many versions of howto, why, when, where, what equip, etc for many peoples needs.

I myself have designed and put together my system for a small cabin or mini home, somewhere in the size of 400-500 sf, with 110 volt only with no "grid tie" connections. The system is expandable to 240v and able to add additional batteries. I am a senior so my loads are very minimal. I can get away with 4-5kw system. Add on capacity is available. I have under 5K invested in my system with commercial 485 watt jinko panels and a Hysolis Chinese solar generator. For back-up i have a small 4K inverter generator capable of recharging batteries with either propane or gasoline. I have not had to run my generator as of yet. I am able to at any time disconnect myself from the grid and be self sufficient. The problem is that when you run these systems 24/7 you add cycles to major components of batteries, and inverters. These are usually the weak links in any home system. I choose to leave mine idle because my provide is heavily invested in Solar and Wind and my rates are very low. So its better for me to use their infrastructure instead of mine, with having the ability in an emergency to power my own loads, or in a prolonged situation stand on my own.

As home systems become more sophisticated capacity and efficiency rise. 240 systems capable of powering several thousand sf' homes with multi ac, dryers, heaters, lightening etc. are becoming more affordable and common.

A young family, living in a high cost energy sector, who plans to live in that home long enough to realize a break-even or slightly profitable system is good for the planet. Other considerations are, your future home value with or without your planned system i.e. real estate current and future worth, interest on loans, maintenance and repair etc. With a super inflationary period some buy now at any price because they know tomorrow the cost will be higher. If i was much younger and living in the EU and planned on staying in my home i certainly would look at long term finance or home equity or better CASH as tomorrow fiat money will be worth less.

Just my 2 cents and a little food for thought....................

Have a blessed day folks!

Last edited by frcc; 25th August 2022 at 11:31 AM. Reason: add info and clarigy
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